The above video is one of more than 15 to be released by YouTube channel Mormon Leaks. Most are of closed-door sessions in which LDS leaders are briefed and discuss issues in the news and of the faith. See more videos below.
SALT LAKE CITY, Utah, Oct. 2, 2016 (Gephardt Daily) — LDS leaders in 2011 were briefed in a closed-door session about WikiLeaks and the harm and embarrassment that leaked insider information might pose.
Then a leak happened to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in a small way, with news breaking on General Conference weekend.
The YouTube channel Mormon Leaks, which keeps its manager’s identity secret, posted more than a dozen videos, most of closed-door meetings in which church leaders were briefed, then were invited to ask questions or to discuss the information presented.
And one of those leaked videos was of the 2011 WikiLeaks presentation.
John Dehlin — a former LDS Church member who was excommunicated for sharing his concerns online about the church’s truthfulness and practices — was rattled by what he heard some church leaders say on that video.
“Their only reaction was to obsess about the potential homosexuality of the participants in WikiLeaks,” Dehlin said.
“They used terms like ‘confirmed homosexual,’ which is kind of a gross term. And to hear Elder (Dallin H.) Oaks say that if there’s a bad story, the people in the media don’t report it unless it supports ‘the gay agenda,’ it was kind of revolting and really, really disturbing.”
LDS Church spokesman Eric Hawkins released the following statement regarding the Mormon Leak videos:
“Most of these videos appear to be from briefings received by senior Church leaders between 2007 and 2012. In these committee meetings, presentations are routinely received from various religious, political and subject matter experts on a variety of topics. The purpose is to understand issues that may face the Church, and is in pursuit of the obligation Church leaders feel to be informed on and have open discussion about current issues. This is an informational forum, not a decision-making body.”
Dehlin is the creator and host of the Mormon Stories podcasts, on which he interviews people about their LDS Church experiences, most of which are negative.
Dehlin has said that he supports more informational transparency in the LDS Church so that believers can feel better about their membership, and, over time, improvements can be made to the faith and its support organization.
“Honestly, my personal reaction (to the videos) is I am saddened and a bit heartsick about the state of church policy and the way revelations are made,” Dehlin told Gephardt Daily.
“I think these videos show how the brethren are even more conservative and more out-of-touch than we thought — which is saying a lot.”
Dehlin was also bothered by a video in which former Oregon Sen. Gordon Smith spoke to church leaders.
“To see a U.S. senator sort of pander to the leaders of the LDS Church, almost kissing their ring,”Dehlin said.
“And another video explained the benefits of our war in Iraq was that it would be opening great missionary opportunities…. That kind of opinion informs our decision to go to war. That kind of thing is worse than I could ever imagine.”
Dehlin also was disturbed by a leaked video about religious freedom, which said the church would “not budge” on certain issues, no matter the cost and the time required.
“What they really mean is fighting homosexuality and fighting same-sex marriage,” Dehlin said. “When they say religious freedom, they mean the right to impose religion on the country. What they mean by religious freedom is that they will spend so much money and resources. It seems so un-Christlike.”
Dehlin said he hopes the clear view of how some elder church leaders think will encourage the church to institute an “emeritus” status for some top leaders.
“I think the church needs to put these apostles on emeritus status. They are unfit to govern,” Dehlin said. “They are unfit to govern a church so wealthy and powerful. These videos show they are unfit. They need an emeritus status, like retirement, like the pope (Pope Benedict XVI), so we can get more fit leaders — because lives are at stake.
“When young LGBT people are killing themselves by the dozens, this isn’t just comedy. This sort of corporate buffoonery turns immediately tragic, because lives are at stake.”
Links to the rest of the 16 leaked videos that were available at press time, with each listed under the title assigned by Mormon Leaks, follow below.
• In which they express confidence that Kurds will one day become Mormons:
• Addressing the problem of Mormons marrying later in life:
• In which they fret over the young, single adults:
• In which they fret over the growing popularity of marijuana:
• In which they fret over science and worldly morals:
• In which the apostles crack crack jokes about gambling in Las Vegas and 9/11:
• In which they fret over science and worldly morals:
• In which they watch a clip from “Pirates of the Caribbean”:
• In which they fret about religious freedom…:
• In which they discuss how relations with Islam can be improved:
• In which they fret over politics:
• Church preparedness:
• In which they discuss politics with Sen. Gordon Smith:
• The housing crisis:
• CHD reorganization:
Convicted con man Joseph Smith Jr. was the founder of the Mormon faith. Joseph Jr. was a traveling diviner who went town to town offering his “magical” services. Joseph claimed he could find buried Spanish treasure using “Peep” (Seer) stones, magic stones that gave him divining power. He conned poor farmers getting them to pay him to prospect for buried Spanish treasure on their property. Just before Joseph ran off with Emma Hale against her parents wishes, he was convicted of swindling farmers and the original court bill of 1826 charging him of this offense is still on record.
Joe Smith Jr. had over 30 wives, some as young as 13 years old
Brigham Young had over 50 wives, some as young as 15 years old
Pedofiles, child rapists, convicted criminals and the Mormon flock still follow. Amazing example of human sheep.
all I am going to say on this is nice fairy tale of lies that is all this is. You made this up off the top of your head somewhere in a very sick and depraved place you need help. Not one one of those sentences are even remotely true. I am done with this.
So sorry, Danielle, most of this is true. While Freedom fighter’s tone is a little strong, most of this is accurate. Check out lds.org to learn more: https://www.lds.org/topics/essays?lang=eng
You might want to re-evaluate what you consider facts. Joseph had two girls as young as 14. Maybe it was a typo.
READ the stories then if it’s on LDS.org! He never lived with or had anything sexual with the 14yr old! Wreck, Wreck, Wreck. Distort and twist. Just go home and leave the Mormons alone. They have the right to follow the commandments are worship Almighty God how they see fit. AMERICA! They are imperfect men trying to do God’s will. Church history is weird and so is any churches history. People were weird in the course of history. That’s the truth.
Dehlin is really not saying much more than he and Church leaders disagree on some policy issues. That’s about all these videos show, and it’s something we all already knew.
Ah yes, the classic “we already knew this” answer.
We “already knew” Gordon Smith was passing off potentially confidential information to LDS leadership.
We “already knew” the church gave approximately 1.3 Billion in charitable donations in the last 26 years. Sound good? The church also spent 1.5 billion building City Creek Mall in 7 years (from 2006-2012). “But the mall was actually built by Property Reserve, Inc.!” Yes, Property Reserve, Inc., which is the commercial real estate division of the Corporation of the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is the same branch that…intakes and disperses tithing money. But we “already knew” that too, right?
We “already knew” the church spent philanthropic funds to create advertisements encouraging parents to pass the funds in their wills to the church rather than their own kids should their kids be “unworthy”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNRlg6O8ekU
I can’t wait to find out what we “already know” in the future!
I have not watched all of the videos and don’t know if I will, but let me just say – Thank you for posting them. It is nice to see the workings of the Church. It is nice to have reaffirmed that we have such wise, noble, experienced and intelligent men and women at the helm.
I know the intent in releasing these was to belittle and demean, but the responsible party may want to rethink their position and methods. No sane or intelligent person could possible find anything negative in these videos – other than the complete dishonesty of a person willing to leak this sort of thing. Or the complete dishonesty of editing the videos to try and “make a point”.
A word of advice – if you need to lie or misrepresent something to “make your point” – you don’t have a point worth making.
These men worrying about these important things is a positive thing. They are directly responsible for the moral, emotional and physical well being of 15+ million people and indirectly to many more. Only a great fool would think these videos show anything other than good and honest men doing their best in a very difficult and often thankless job.
Thank you again for reminding us all of the integrity and diligence the men leading this church have.
“Thankless job” – lol. The upper church authorities do get a pretty fat paycheck, sourced from tithing. And every believing member of the church thanks them for their service and prays for them nightly. I’m not quite sure that constitutes a “thankless job”.
“I know the intent in releasing these was to belittle and demean” – How do you know that? I think you probably inferred that, since the intent wasn’t described on the Mormon Leaks channel. That’s not quite the same as knowing. Let’s pose another question: why weren’t these videos public to begin with? Hmm. Now we might be getting to an alternative explanation: to shine light on something that has been intentionally kept in the dark.
If you support Mormonism, you’re likely to not find anything shocking. I’ll outline a few highlights that I found interesting:
– Pretty clear validation that the primary reason the missionary age was lowered in order to retain youth.
– A Senator disclosing information for which he doesn’t know the classified status. Face. Palm.
– The introduction of this Senator describing the staff of said senator to be “Church broke”. Look it up. For a believing Mormon, that probably is no big deal. For a non-believer, it is a HUGE deal.
– The comments on homosexuality was a bit absurd.
So, yeah, nothing HUGE. In many regards, as you say, these videos appear to validate that the LDS church runs a clean operation, and those involved in the videos seemed genuine. I happen to emphatically disagree with those involved in operating the church on many points, such as the fact that church just “ain’t true”, and that they need to change their position on homosexuality. It is dishonest of them to represent the church policy positions they set as unchanging revelation from God, and for them to dig in their heals and be unwilling to budge at all costs, since it is clear that church policy is currently defined by them sitting in a room, getting briefed, looking over data and discussing. And that church policy has changed plenty of times in the past.
Church policy was changed not because God changed, it was because the Saints are not perfected and this Church is not perfected yet either understand difference between true and perfected. It will be perfected in the Coming of Christ. In the days of the beginning of the Church all of God’s Principles needed to be fulfilled even though the Saints were not even close to being ready those principles still needed to be fulfilled to bring the fullness of the Gospel. Now as for accepting sin as right just because the world now accepts it does not ever change God’s view on homosexuality as a sin and needs a change of heart otherwise known as repentance. Policy and Sin never go hand and hand when was Sin accepted and policy changed to accept sin into the Gospel? I know the policy changes that have occurred and not one of those changes has even been to accept Sinful Acts as right. If you can find a Sin that is now allowed in the Gospel that was previously not okay I would love to know about. God is the same all the time unchanging and unfaltering He does not conform to us we conform to him that is why the truth of the Gospel is only here we don’t conform to the world God’s Gospel will not be large in numbers it will always remain with low numbers because people want to change and accept what works for them not what is right. Only the True Followers of Jesus Christ will seek for this fullness of the Gospel. I am very humbled and very priviledged to be blessed with perfect knowledge that I asked for when I went through the temple yet I have this knowledge and I am not even worthy to go through the temple and it is of my own making and not of God he is showing me that I am to either change my living situation or parish in outer darkness. Those are my choices and a very good friend of mine died today in her sleep and I saw her yesterday. It happens like that it is a huge wake up call to me to change not tomorrow but now. Tomorrow maybe too late as it was for her. I am held to a higher law because of my perfect knowledge . I won’t get a second chance like most will.
To answer your question of “When was sin accepted and policy changed to accept sin into the gospel?” The answer is adultery. Or, polygamy/polyandry. This allowed adultery to be acceptable in the doctrine as early prophets illegitimately took multiple women, sometimes young teenage girls, or otherwise married women. No matter how you slice it, this is adultery. There is a reason this was so highly looked down on, and so harmful. Not to mention look at the polygamist communities of today and how harmful they are to the women and children in them. Can you honestly say that polygamy is divine when all of its fruits are nothing but harmful? “By their fruits, ye shall know them.”
Tim, The leaders of the leaders church will never buckle to your opinions or anybody else’s. They strive to teach the members of the church what is written in the bible and the standard works. Your beef is with God and not any policy these brethren have set that is in line with Christian beliefs. If Christian churches bend to societal pressure of political correctness then that’s there choice. God will never condone homesexuality because he could not fulfill his purposes of the the earth. You and I wouldn’t exist if the world was homesexual. Good luck in finding a happier purpose in life and build something instead of trying to wreck somebody elses. Just trying to live a happy life as the bible describes :) All the best!
I see a bunch of fools that are more obsessed about a persons sexual orientation than the security of their own confidential information. Had they focused more on that those videos wouldn’t have been leaked.
NO BIG DEAL these were leaked by conspiring people bitter about the policies that are in line with the bible and Christian beliefs. I’m sorry but people can live their lives as homosexual as they want and I love them and have no problem. So why can’t they just leave the church alone? We’re just trying to be happy and obey the commandments and Gods laws for happiness that spare my family heartache when followed. Why would I not want to do that and be a member of a church that brings us so much piece and joy. What’s the beef? Nothing to see here…
Why can’t the church just leave them alone?
“A word of advice – if you need to lie or misrepresent something to “make your point” – you don’t have a point worth making.”
I think this is really a solid statement. Have you been paying attention to what church leaders have done since Joseph Smith though? This very thing. Apply your skepticism and learned wisdom such as this to every area of your life, and you will see some of the issues that these videos represent rather than learned obedience to the men in them.
Dusty – Bingo!
I have not watched the videos, nor do I care to, but it reaffirms to me that these men are not out of touch. They strive to be current on all global and local issues that might affect the kingdom of God. I’m grateful for their wisdom and know that they seek the Lords opinion on the matters of the church.
It is easy to see, and not at all surprising, that the foes of the church will go at great lengths and employ cowardice like this to try and pull down the faithful. Those who watched conference were warned about these people. Love the church and I know it is led by the Lord. “Those who reject this glad message shall never such happiness know.”
> I have not watched the videos, nor do I care to, but it reaffirms to me that these men are not out of touch.
How do you “know” it is led by the lord? Honest question, how do you for sure know?
This is a very personal and prayerful experience that is different for each individual seeking a truly converted heart in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I personally recommend reading the Book of Jeremiah in the ORIGINAL King James version of the Bible and then reading 1 Nephi with it and ask God as you ponder these things in your heart praying with a sincere heart with real intent to know these to be true and that will give you an insight into seeking further. It is a very personal and individualized journey into the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I offer this suggestion that you pray to learn as Joseph did when he wanted to know what Church to join and was told none for none of them are of me. That he would then be the one to bring the fullness of the Gospel to the world and once again do away with the apostacy that had been on earth since Jesus Christ was crucified. You can pray to know that what I say now is the Truth and the answer you will get is read the Book of Mormon for yourself and gain your own testimony to know the Gospel.
Thank you for your response. So what do I do if I have read those things (many times) prayed sincerely about them (many more times) and received no knowledge, confirmation, or answer of any kind? ((In essence, what do we do when Moroni’s promise, and the claims of LDS church leaders do nothing but consistently fail, other than be blamed repeatedly for not being faithful enough, sincere enough, or having unresolved sins? (none of which were true))
What then do I do with knowledge available that contradicts your statements about Joseph Smith?
I understand belief, and to be honest I support people having beliefs that I don’t have myself. I may disagree with why they choose to have those beliefs, but respect their right to hold them. What I don’t understand is the claim that these beliefs are knowledge, or something they know without any doubts when they can offer nothing solid for why they claim to “know”.
Brian. Tisk tisk tisk. Brian, Brian, Brian… Have you ever asked yourself why you have such a hesitation for watching these videos? If you sincerely know for a fact that the church is true, what possible threat could watching these videos be to your enduring faith? The person claiming that these videos were deliberately spliced to sound more damning makes me question whether they actually watched the videos. Are you not curious? You revere these men, and strive to live like them. What better way, then to observe how they carry out “the Lord’s” business? Does it strike you as at all strange, that the 15 repeatedly warn you about “anti-mormon this” and “anti Mormon that.” Why the incessant warnings? Why do church leaders continually feel the need to caution you against reading anything about the church unless it comes from the church? Why do they continually strive to instill a sense of divide between church members, and… pretty much everyone else. It’s “the world is getting more wicked, but the church is getting more righteous,” its “republicans are more righteous, and democrats are more evil,” it’s “righteous saints v. evil ANTI-Mormons.” Its “homo-sexuals sin v. Celestial family glory” it’s “pure stay at home mother v. Evil career-loving, feminist” and on and on until every Mormon I know has such an enemy-complex. You guys are afraid of everything. Its obvious that these guys are hiding something from you. It’s also obvious that the stuff they’re hiding from you isn’t actually very hidden. But you do have to be willing to open up your mind to a different point of view, or even just open google and type “CES letter.” If you do nothing else, at least ask yourself these two questions: Does the church assume you as being so unintelligent and uninspired that your fickle mind couldn’t possibly engaging with an “other” about an opposing perspective on the church, or handle consuming any information about the church that wasn’t funneled through them? Look. I’m going to be frank with you, man. To all of us, “mormonsim = Scientology.” You guys are in a corporate cult. The product they sell – “the eternal family unit.” If you want it, it’s gonna cost you, though! 10% of your income… ouch. They do provide a membership benefits package, though. They tell you exactly how to live your life, down to a t, exactly what beliefs to have. They even remove you from having to make the choice about what underwear you put on, even down to the types of hair-cuts, beard lengths, skirt lengths, shoulder exposure, movies you can watch, music you listen to, foods you can eat, and on and on. The end result is pretty alright if you’re not gay or a feminist, or a skeptic, or black, or a democrat, scientist. The best part, the executive board rakes it in, and you guys do all the work for free! Including cleaning the buildings! They are sooo freaking loaded, and they won’t even hire janitorial staff, even though they could create so many jobs by doing it. And that’s not even the craziest part. The craziest part is that this corporate cult doesn’t even pay 18 year old teenagers (and retired senior citizens, many living on fixed and limited incomes, and have paid likely hundreds of thousands of dollars into the church over the course of their life times) that they brainwash into voluntarily expending their own resources (often missing huge family events) to dedicate themselves ENTIRELY to their high pressure sales force. It’s sad, really. The church exploits its most vulnerable members(questioning teenagers and elderly people nearing the end of their lives). And Brian, just one more thing…everyone masturbates. It’s not evil. It’s okay. You can keep doing it. You don’t have to feel guilty anymore.
Q: “Why do church leaders continually feel the need to caution you against reading anything about the church unless it comes from the church?”
A: The short answer could be: for the same reason Democrats and Republicans would caution anyone against reading anything about their political views unless it comes from their own political party. Seeking information from sources that intend to discredit is never a wise thing.
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/03/when-doubts-and-questions-arise states:
“Largely because of the Internet, it is not uncommon for members of the Church to encounter ideas that challenge their beliefs. Some members find the questions raised to be disconcerting and wonder whether it is acceptable to have a question about their faith.
“It is important to understand that it’s good to have questions. In fact, asking questions in faith is essential to our spiritual progress.”
The Apostle Paul said, “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Prophet Joseph Smith said, “One of the grand fundamental principles of ‘Mormonism’ is to receive truth, let it come from whence it may” (History of the Church, 5:499).
However, when seeking for truth 2 Nephi 28:31 cautions:
“Cursed is he that putteth his trust in man, or maketh flesh his arm, or shall hearken unto the precepts of men, save their precepts shall be given by the power of the Holy Ghost.”
Rather than enter into scriptural or philosophical debate, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints encourages its members and earnest seekers of truth to follow the counsel in Moroni 10:4 and “ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.”
President Gordon B. Hinckley has said:
“We seem to have a host of critics. Some appear intent on trying to destroy us. They mock that which is sacred. They belittle that which we call divine. Some have said that we are trapped by our history, others have worked with great diligence seeking flaws in our early leaders. …
“My plea is that as we continue our search for truth, particularly we of the Church, that we look for strength and goodness rather than weakness and foibles …
“I do not fear truth. I welcome it. But I wish all of my facts to be in their proper context” (“The Continuing Pursuit of Truth,” Ensign, Apr. 1986, 4–6).
Q: “Why do they continually strive to instill a sense of divide between church members, and… pretty much everyone else”
A: As is to be expected, LDS Church leaders encourage obedience to the commandments of God and teachings of Jesus Christ. It is unfortunate that our secular society is choosing a direction that divides it from those commandments and teachings.
Q: Why doesn’t the Church pay its volunteer missionaries?
A: Jesus Christ didn’t get paid for sharing his gospel, and his New Testament apostles/disciples actually made a point of emphasizing that they didn’t. The Book of Mormon goes so far as to condemn preaching for pay. So whether or not the Church is “loaded,” if it were to start paying its missionaries it would contradict the teachings of both the Bible and Book of Mormon.
However, nobody is compelled to serve. Those who wish to serve but have insufficient funds to support themselves, can receive financial assistance through the generosity of others who donate to the Church’s missionary fund.
Watched the video’s and was impressed… changed nothing for me.
If you truly love the Lord and the church, then you owe it to yourself to watch the videos. Even apostles make mistakes, especially men in their very advanced years. The problem is that these mistakes effect millions of men, women, children. These mistakes could be avoided if tradition allowed these men to retire with dignity. My grandfather is extremely radical and backwards in his views—believing that a Mormon on a white horse will save the USA in the last days. He also has a love affair with Orrin Hatch, writing to him once a week, asking Sen. Hatch to increase his social security check. Should my grandfather sit at the head of a church with 15 billion people of diverse ages, races, genders? I think that would be disastrous. When I watch these videos, I don’t see many differences between these men and my grandfather.
LOL… these men aren’t crazy like your grandfather. Never once heard them state anything not backed by the standard works. Never saw anything in there about a white horse saving the USA! LOL
First of let me say I am a devout Follower of Jesus Christ and a very honored Member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I am truly sad and sickened by the lies and deceit being spewed here. God is forever steadfast in his teachings and commandments unwavering in his doctrine and completely unchanging. The world may accept sin as natural and embrace it with open arms. God loves sinners whom come unto him and repent and turn from their sins and apply the Atonement of Christ in their lives you are asking God to accept the same sins that Soddom and Ghamorha were destroyed because of their wickedness and homosexuality was the main sin. Why would he tolerate today if he is unchanging. The world is changing God is not nor has ever taught contradictions in his Gospel. Now it is not perfected yet remains the true restored Gospel of the same organization with the same original apostles John the Baptist, James and Peter bestowing the same priesthood to Joseph Smith Jr. They were the last ones to have it and so they had to be the ones to give it for our day. No other church has the authority to act in God’s Name no other church has received the Authority of God by the last priesthood holders themselves. The keys that were all held by the prophets of old passed those keys down to Joseph Smith who then passed them to Brigham Young. Understand that just because the world accepts sin as the norm does not mean the Lord accepts it in his kingdom no unclean thing shall enter his kingdom and in order to be forgiven one needs to turn away from sin and obtain a changed heart. That is the only way to be forgiven of sin God will not change his views on Sin because the world does. That is what sets God’s Church apart from the world. I know that this is the Lord’s Church because he has revealed to me the truths I asked for when I prayed to have perfect knowledge of the fullness of the Gospel and was blessed beyond measures with that knowledge when a very close friend told me she was a descendant of the ancient Hebrews and all her descendants are Mexican and she being a Catholic and all her history is Catholic. Then that proved to me that the Book of Mormon is true and that the only way it came to be was because of Joseph Smith Jr. Which proved that everything written in the Doctrine and Covenants was true and the only Church on earth then was restored Gospel of Jesus Christ as was established by Jesus Christ 2000 years before. All one needs to do to gain their own testimony of the truth of which I write is ask God with sincerity of heart with real intent and ask that it be revealed to you and you to shall come to know in perfect knowledge of the true unchanging unwavering, unfaltering teachings and commandments. His teachings of Old and New Testament are as they have always been. That will never change. The Prophets and General Authorities cannot change the true principles and commandments because the world says it’s okay. God says it is not okay therefore changing God’s commandments is not okay. God does not change man changes God’s laws to fit society and their own acceptable versions of what they believe. Sorry God’s truths will never again be lost. Thank you Joseph Smith Jr.
Why do these blatant frauds listen to “experts” on secular matters when all they have to do is pray and ask God for guidance. The fact is that God never has nor ever will talk to these septuagenarians is the ultimate irony. God is utterly silent now and for evermore.
“a very close friend told me she was a descendant of the ancient Hebrews and all her descendants are Mexican and she being a Catholic and all her history is Catholic. Then that proved to me that the Book of Mormon is true” – how can you possibly expect anyone to take you seriously if you actually base your entire belief system on this? Do you not realize that the Book of Mormon is PRROVABLY false. Seriously. Mountains of proof. When non LDS people say that Joseph smith was a con man. It’s not meant as an attack. It’s merely a reflection of the concernsus based on the historical record. It’s a bummer Mormons are too indoctrinated to actually understand their own history. Your church is the one being deceitful… not some invisible force of “anti-Mormons.” I’m not an anti-Mormon. I genuinely feel bad for Mormons. You guys are in a cult and like most cult members, getting you to open your eyes is damn near impossible. Even though the only thing it requires is you to be humble enough to admit you could potentially be wrong… *gasp, and open enough to examine the evidence the rest of the world has on your church. Do you realize that important fragments of the Egyptian scrolls Joseph smith used to “translate” the book of Abraham are actually sitting in a museum? Spoiler alert- not about Abraham. If you just were willing to actually open your beliefs up to legitimate scrutiny, then perhaps you’d start to realize why everyone thinks Mormonism is a cult. Cesletter.com
Joe, the story of the CES letter is a fraud and conceived to get gain. I researched the supposed story of Mr. Runnells and the bishop interaction he claims and his story is not true. All the items he notes have been taken from Anti chat rooms. How can a religion that teaches to follow the commandments be so wrong? I and everyone that follows the commandments are spared from the torment and consequences of breaking the commandments. We are spared this heartache that comes from all the wreckage of breaking Gods laws that are established for our benefit. CHURCH HISTORY only reflects imperfect man trying and striving to do GODS WILL. This holds true for any of the worlds churches that have honest intent. None are blameless as imperfect people lead them. However, by following the commandments my family is HAPPY. These men in these videos have real love and concern for the people of the world and are doing their best to following God and help others to do so. The noise level has been raised bcz of the change in policy for homosexuals. We can’t change Gods laws… We love all men and I have no problem with anyone or anyones orientation. The problem only remains when others attack us for our beliefs. Do we attack others for their beliefs? NO. We live in a time where it is no longer accepted to legally kill mormons for their beliefs. Go back to your home and try to leave people alone and let them worship Almighty God how they see fit. God Speed brother
I won’t try to debate you about your beliefs, I think that would be rather fruitless. But I do offer a correction to an error you made. When you study ancient Jewish cultures, and the other books left out of the bible, and other religious texts of theirs that goes along with early Abrahamic religions you will find the main “sins” of Sodom were not homosexuality, but of not showing hospitality. While I don’t think this makes the actions of Lot offering his daughters up to the mob any less despicable, it at least makes it understandable. Lot was being faithful to the commandment of hospitality and treating his guests with the utmost consideration.
Also, to get technical on you. In these original stories, angels are different beings than humans. Wanting to experience “strange flesh” doesn’t necessarily mean homosexuality. They wanted to experience sex with a different species, angels. And though there is no archaeological evidence to prove that any of this ever happened, or Sodom was a real place, taken in context of the story and the writers it provides a little more clarity than the long standing Christian bigotry toward gay people (which really rose with the council of Nicaea, and Christianity as we know it in general stems from that.)
Would you like to provide specific verifiable sources and citations to support your postulations?
Please rename article to “An interview with John Dehlin, LDS Apostate”
When people are this interested in homosexuality, it almost always means they are closet homesuxuals themselves. Who knows what else goes on behind closed doors with these old men and their obsession with same sex attraction.
Just Curious… can someone explain how you avoid all that nasty illness causing bacteria in the rectum? I throw up at the smell of stool. How do alternative lifestyle folks overcome that?
I watched a bunch of these videos, and honestly — I was impressed. They had such bad titles, but the content was harmless. If every church and group did this, I think we’d all be more understanding of each other. Of course, I don’t have access to experts on all issues, so I guess I’m stuck watching videos like these on the internet.
Totally agree Kurt, why does the Utah media… Namely the staff at Gephardt Daily, try to mis-represent with their titles of these videos? The content was totally HARMLESS and makes me think more of these men. They act the same way in closed mtg’s as they do at the pulpit in conference. There are so many haters in Utah. Why don’t they just move instead of leading bitter lives forever. They would be happier moving on & leaving the Mormons alone.
Thank you to whoever leaked these. The true concern by these group of special brethren is remarkable. I can’t think of another body as concerned and true as these brethren about the people of the world. Instead of AIG thinking about how to hose everyone these brethren were concerned about saving everyone.
“Special brethren” I like that, and find it rather fitting. They are “special” indeed. And to amend your statement to be more accurate “these brethren were concerned about saving everyone that isn’t gay and adheres to their personal belief system.”
Danielle,
You seem to have a very strong conviction and that’s wonderful. There’s this one thing that always comes up in what you’ve said and I’m glad you brought it to light.
Versions of the following come from many people when discussing sin, but a question concerning the validity of Joseph Smith’s revelation inevitably results. Here it is..
You say, “His teachings of Old and New Testament are as they have always been. That will never change. The Prophets and General Authorities cannot change the true principles and commandments because the world says it’s okay. God says it is not okay therefore changing God’s commandments is not okay. God does not change man changes God’s laws to fit society and their own acceptable versions of what they believe. Sorry God’s truths will never again be lost.”
Ok, well, what about this: “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!” – Galations 1:8
Galations, better known as The Epistle to the Galations is the ninth book of the New Testament. It is a letter from Paul the Apostle to a number of Early Christian communities in Galatia. It was drafted sometime between 40 and 60 AD. The Book of Mormon was brought forth in March, 1830.
And from the Old Testament, Jeremiah 23:16 – “Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
they fill you with false hopes. They speak visions from their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord.”
So, who was right? Joseph Smith or Paul the first Apostle from the New Testament and Jeremiah from the Old? Was it Joseph? Then you’re taking liberties with the Bible and, according to Paul, you are accursed. Do you believe Paul? Then don’t stay on the path you’re on. Neither? You should probably drop everything and become a Buddhist. Both? Then you have accepted a contradiction of “Truths.”
Food for thought. Or, if you prefer, something to close your eyes to. Regardless, this contradiction isn’t going away. You may want to check with your bishop.
George,
Although the Book of Mormon was translated and first published in English 1830, it’s original content was actually drafted between 600 BC and 421 AD, with 2/3 of it having been drafted before any of the New Testament content.
But the dates are actually irrelevant, because the Book of Mormon preaches exactly the same gospel of Jesus Christ as Paul and the other New Testament apostles preached. The Bible and the Book of Mormon are in perfect harmony, and are used side-by-side. Any alleged contradictions in doctrine with “mainstream” Christianity were introduced by the Nicean council in AD 325. It is interesting to note that the purpose of that council was to settle the various doctrinal disputes among the Christian factions of the time, who interpreted the Bible differently. The method of settlement? Majority rule. In other words, there were still people who interpreted things differently, but they were simply outvoted. Even to this day, mainstream Christianity is divided in their interpretation of the Bible and acceptance of the Nicean Creed.
The Book of Mormon is another witness of Jesus Christ, which supports and clarifies the content of the Bible.
Jeremiah was a prophet. Was he saying “don’t listen to what I have to say”???