SALT LAKE CITY, Utah, June 30, 2015 (Gephardt Daily) — Top leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have issued a letter addressing the recent U.S. Supreme Court ruling legalizing same sex marriage in the United States.
THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
OFFICE OF THE FIRST PRESIDENCY
47 EAST SOUTH TEMPLE STREET, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH 84150-1200
June 29, 2015
TO: General Authorities; General Auxiliary Presidencies; and the following leaders in the United States and Canada: Area Seventies; Temple, Stake Mission and District Presidencies; Bishops and Branch Presidents
Dear Bretheren and Sisters:
Enclosed is a statement by the Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve in response to the recent Supreme Court decision legalizing same-sex marriage in the United States. The statement also pertains to the situation in Canada. Local leaders are asked to meet with all adults, young men, and young women on either July 5 or July 12 in a setting other than sacrament meeting and read to them the entire statement.
Also included is background material which may be helpful in answering questions that arise.
Stake presidents are asked to see that bishops receive copies of this letter and the enclosures.
Sincerely yours,
Thomas S. Monson
Henry B. Eyring
Dieter F. Uchtdorf
RESPONSE TO THE SUPREME COURT DECISION LEGALIZING SAME‐SEX MARRIAGE IN THE UNITED STATES
June 29, 2015
Because of the recent decision of the United States Supreme Court and similar legal proceedings and legislative actions in a number of countries that have given civil recognition to same‐sex marriage relationships, the Council of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter‐day Saints restates and reaffirms the doctrinal foundation of Church teachings on morality, marriage, and the family. As we do, we encourage all to consider these teachings in the context of the Plan of Salvation and our Heavenly Father’s purposes in creating the earth and providing for our mortal birth and experience here as His children.
Marriage between a man and a woman was instituted by God and is central to His plan for His children and for the well‐being of society. “God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth” (Genesis 1:27‐28). “Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh” (Genesis 2:24). Strong families, guided by a loving mother and father, serve as the fundamental institution for nurturing children, instilling faith, and transmitting to future generations the moral strengths and values that are important to civilization and vital to eternal salvation.
A family built on marriage of a man and a woman is the best setting for God’s plan of happiness to thrive. That is why communities and nations generally have encouraged and protected marriage between a man and a woman, and the family that results from their union, as privileged institutions. Sexual relations outside of such a marriage are contrary to the laws of God pertaining to morality.
Changes in the civil law do not, indeed cannot, change the moral law that God has established. God expects us to uphold and keep His commandments regardless of divergent opinions or trends in society. His law of chastity is clear: sexual relations are proper only between a man and a woman who are legally and lawfully wedded as husband and wife. We invite all to review and understand the doctrine contained in “The Family: A Proclamation to the World.”
Consistent with our fundamental beliefs, Church officers will not employ their ecclesiastical authority to perform marriages between two people of the same sex, and the Church does not permit its meetinghouses or other properties to be used for ceremonies, receptions, or other activities associated with same‐sex marriages. Nevertheless, all visitors are welcome to our chapels and premises so long as they respect our standards of conduct while there.
The gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us to love and treat all people with kindness and civility—even when we disagree. We affirm that those who avail themselves of laws or court rulings authorizing same‐sex marriage should not be treated disrespectfully. Indeed, the Church has advocated for rights of same‐sex couples in matters of hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment, and probate, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches.
The Church insists on its leaders’ and members’ right to express and advocate religious convictions on marriage, family, and morality free from retaliation or retribution. The Church is also entitled to maintain its standards of moral conduct and good standing for members.
As members of the Church, we are responsible to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to illuminate the great blessings that flow from heeding God’s commandments as well as the inevitable consequences of ignoring them. We invite all to pray that people everywhere will have their hearts softened to the truths God established in the beginning, and that wisdom will be granted to those who are called upon to decide issues critical to society’s future.
THE COUNCIL OF
THE FIRST PRESIDENCY AND
QUORUM OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER‐DAY SAINTS
Background Material for Bishops and Branch Presidents
On the U.S. Supreme Court Decision on Same‐sex Marriage
The Church has provided a statement dated June 29, 2015, prepared by the Council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles regarding the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision legalizing same‐sex marriage in the United States. The response reaffirms the divinely‐revealed reasons and proper doctrinal context for the Church’s unequivocal position regarding matters of morality, chastity, marriage, and the family. As the response notes, the Church’s teachings on these subjects are grounded in the scriptural declarations of God’s eternal plan for the salvation and exaltation of His children and are framed in “The Family: A Proclamation to the World.” While the statement stands on its own, below is additional information that may be helpful to you in responding to questions that may arise.
For much of human history, civil laws have generally been compatible with God’s laws. Unfortunately, there have been notable exceptions to that pattern. For example, it is legal in the United States to perform an abortion on an unborn fetus. However, this practice is not morally acceptable before God. (See Handbook 1, 17.3). The consumption of alcohol, while contrary to God’s law, is legal in most nations of the world, but the physical and social toll for doing so is a painful matter of record. So, too, with issues of unchaste sexual behavior, whether it be heterosexual or homosexual in its orientation. As the First Presidency has previously said and as this current response affirms, “Changes in the civil law do not, indeed cannot, change the moral law that God has established. God expects us to uphold and keep His commandments regardless of divergent opinions or trends in society” (First Presidency letter on “Same‐ Sex Marriage,” January 9, 2014).
What is the Church’s Policy on Homosexual Relations?
“Homosexual behavior violates the commandments of God, is contrary to the purposes of human sexuality, and deprives people of the blessings that can be found in family life and in the saving ordinances of the gospel. Those who persist in such behavior or who influence others to do so are subject to Church discipline. Homosexual behavior can be forgiven through sincere repentance. “If members engage in homosexual behavior, Church leaders should help them have a clear understanding of faith in Jesus Christ, the process of repentance, and the purpose of life on earth.
“While opposing homosexual behavior, the Church reaches out with understanding and respect to individuals who are attracted to those of the same gender. “If members feel same‐gender attraction but do not engage in any homosexual behavior, leaders should support and encourage them in their resolve to live the law of chastity and to control unrighteous thoughts. These members may receive Church callings. If they are worthy and qualified in every other way, they may also hold temple recommends and receive temple ordinances” (Handbook 2, 21.4.6).
Does the authorization of same‐sex marriage affect my right to religious freedom?
Our individual right to religious freedom is protected by the First Amendment to the United States’ Constitution and by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. As we exercise that right, we must also exercise tolerance and respect toward others’ rights but do so without condoning behavior that goes contrary to the laws of God. “While we strive for the virtue of tolerance, other commendable qualities need not be lost. Tolerance does not require the surrender of noble purpose or of individual identity. The Lord gave instruction to leaders of His restored Church to establish and maintain institutional integrity—‘that the Church may stand independent’ (D&C 78:14)” (Elder Russell M. Nelson, “Teach Us Tolerance and Love,” April 1994 general conference). How do I respond respectfully to those who consider the Church’s position on this matter unchristian? Our objection to same‐sex marriage is not based on animosity toward anyone, but on our understanding of God’s purposes for His children. For us, the issues are not simply “tolerance” and “equality.” The issues are the nature of marriage and the consequences of redefining a divinely established institution. In addition, redefining marriage in the law can have profound consequences for society, particularly for children. Mothers and fathers matter, and they are not interchangeable. “On the subject of public discourse, we should all follow the gospel teachings to love our neighbor and avoid contention. Followers of Christ should be examples of civility. We should . . . be good listeners and show concern for the sincere belief [of others.] Though we may disagree, we should not be disagreeable. We should be wise in explaining our position and, in doing so, ask that others not be offended by our sincere religious beliefs and the free exercise of our religion” (Elder Dallin H. Oaks, “Loving Others and Living with Differences,” October 2014 general conference).
What if I have reservations of my own regarding the Church’s position on this subject?
“Members who . . . have doctrinal questions should make a diligent effort, including earnest prayer and scripture study, to find solutions and answers themselves. Church members are encouraged to seek guidance from the Holy Ghost to help them in their personal lives and in family and Church responsibilities.
“If members still need help, they should counsel first with their bishop. If necessary, he may refer them to the stake president. “. . . Stake presidents who need clarification about doctrinal or other Church matters may write in behalf of their members to the First Presidency” (Handbook 2, 21.1.24).
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very well said. We whole heartedly support the First Presidency in this statement. We hope we can be tolerant of other people’s views as we expect them to be tolerant of ours.
lol your hilarious. I’m sorry I was as supportive with your many wife’s:). God created all beings. He loves everyone. Enjoy your little club:)
He does love us all and we too are to love our neighbors–even our enemies. Gods very purpose at the same time was/is to give to us commandments which enrich our lives on earth a well as in the hereafter. The scriptures are filled with these Heavenly sent commands which includes but are not limited to loving our neighbors.
*you’re *wives
wrong.
Lesson in grammar: The contraction of “you are” is “you’re” instead of the possessive form “your;” and the plural of wife is “wives” instead of the possessive form “wife’s.” BTW, that “little club” encompasses worlds without number, all populated by children of the very same loving, kind Father in Heaven. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Homosexuality is – by definition – societal suicide. It is a medical fact that, without artificial insemination and/or converts from heterosexual host societies, homosexual societies cannot survive more than one generation. The greater the percentage of homosexual members in a society, the less likely it will survive. Homosexuals should be extremely tolerant of heterosexuals – they are the lifeblood of their society.
well said!
Great response! ‘…Worlds without end…’ Our Heavenly Father is no respector of persons; he loves us all more perfectly than we can understand.
Wow,you could not sound more demeaning if you possibly tried. While you believe these to be your truths please do not impose those on us that do not except them. Point being was under a looking glass it can seem hypocritical of this non tolerance when the “prophet” was boinking multiple women.
Not imposing “truths on ANYONE who does not accept them. The announcement is given to the members of the LDS church only. They do accept them.
wow, ur a real gem Pk, especially the point of imposing beliefs upon other, as if the homosexual groups haven’t impose many ridiculous beliefs on the American people, and the urge to keep digging into the mormons past regarding more than on wife……… pathetic, Mormons gave up that practice centuries ago, get with the time idiot
AMEN
Just what I love about the LDS. The church leader just told you to be respectful. Yet you feel the need to belittle someone for their grammar. Very Christ like. It always amazes me how hypocritical the church has been since it’s conception. Women speaking in church. Praying in church. Blacks and the priesthood. etc. You see the LGBT as a threat to your beliefs. Yet there are only and always have been 3 plus percent LGBT people since the beginning of time. It never increases and never decreases. So why do you fear them? How in anyway will it hurt your church to accept them? They don’t convert. They don’t for the most part breed. Yet for some reason you see them as a threat? How foolish. In time when old white men die off and several generations from now all this homophobia will be gone and the church will accept the LGBT completely.
The church will never accept homosexuality. Please forgive our members, they are not perfect but human, just as you are with your unkind words. Just to let you know… Women in the church hold callings, pray and speak. I also believe that our church was the first church to oppose slavery and have black people mixed with white in the same chapel. We don’t fear homosexuals. What we fear are our rights to worship as God has commanded being removed. People have been put in jail and fined for not marrying homosexuals, when it was law to be able to choose. Laws have almost passed, giving the right for homosexuals to marry anywhere they choose. The right to teach our children Gods laws is being removed from us. The right to think as we please is being removed from us- parents at schools in Canada who don’t agree with homosexuality have to undergo re- thought training. Don’t you see… We are slowly being forced to comply with morals we don’t agree with in a very personal way. No society should infringe on a persons right to freedom of thought and belief.
Like the last reply I joined in saying the church can never and will never accept gay practice as a police or a doctrine.It seems you don’t have indept knowledge of the church and its beliefs. As for those who falls short in their behaviour and response to gays as against church acceptable standard, we say forgive them.Perfection is not an event its a process which all of us are striving to achieve.
WHAT???? Heterosexuals create gays. Always have and always will.
Its many wives and thank you for your support.
It’s.
I’m sorry about your misunderstanding about our church. Your “many wives” statement is not a practice of the current day LDS church. Those who practice it are not the LDS church with the temples worldwide. Just wanted to clarify that mistake.
Sorry, you haven’t put up with our wives!! We only accept ONE spouse and if anyone belonging to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has more than one spouse they are excommunicated. You have us mixed up with some splinter (break off) group from the LDS Church. You sound like someone who goes around looking to fault someone.
For my one wife it’s enough :) but if God ask me to have more i will obey. Did you ignored that Mormons don’t have more than one wife right now? But the plural marriage is un eternal law, and also Abraham had Sarai and Agar for follow the meaning of God.
God created all beings, and love everyone, but you don’t know what happened to Sodoma and Gomorra? Do you think He was not loving people there? He cant apcept the rebellion, like a father have to correct children that he love and teach the right principle. The followers of Christ was a little group in the past, annoyng club for the Pharises, who was in the right part in front of God? I like to be in a little club if in these club there is God The Father and His son Jesus Christ!
I`m with you. :)
FYI our church does not support plural marriage, it is a common belief of others as it was practiced before it became illegal. Tjis was in order to support widows who because of their gender were unable to hold claim to anything as it all belonged to their previous husband. Men were married to many people in order to give them the things they already owned and to support them as women could not work. Our church does not allow any of its members to be married to more than one person at a time, neither are they allowed to enter our temples or have sealing work done for them.
I really don’t believe it has gone far from polygamy. On earthly life yes, but men can be sealed to multiple women in the church, and women can be sealed to only one man. If that doesn’t scream polygamy in the afterlife, I don’t know what does. To add in I get that the man’s first wife has to die first for that to happen, but it still can happen.
This is the biggest piece of bullshit I’ve read in my entire life. It goes way beyond my imagination what kind of sexually repressed homophobe could actually even Ever think that this is God’s say on homosexuality. Do not use the word of a mightier source to camouflage your hate and intolerance on their behalf because it might be YOU who gets punished on judgment day.
Uh oh your intolerance is showing…
The church is seething. They felt the same way when blacks gained the legal right to marry whites. Progress is happening as it always does and will continue to do. Unfortunately, it drives some people to madness.
Just read the scriptures and you will understand why our prophet has said these things…
I lOVE YOU SORI – Even though I don’t agree with you, I love you!
What you all yapping nonsense about and cut out all the crap.God created Adam for Eve, and not Adam for Steve.Lol.
Agreed with you Steven
Agree steve
Disagreement does not equal hate. Those two words have different definitions. They are not the same thing. I will always defend God’s laws.
It is so ironic how the people who accuse us of being hateful use the fowlest and rudest language in accusing us.. I mean read what you wrote and read what we write, and then tell me who is hate filled!
“The gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us to love and treat all people with kindness and civility—even when we disagree. We affirm that those who avail themselves of laws or court rulings authorizing same‐sex marriage should not be treated disrespectfully. Indeed, the Church has advocated for rights of same‐sex couples in matters of hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment, and probate, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches.”
Oh, so much hate and intolerance. Not like they’re advocating for equal treatment in housing, employment, and hospitalization or anything.
Apparently you skipped over large parts of this article. We are to Love everyone equally, and treat everyone and their views with respect. However, this does not mean that we condone actions we believe are against the will of God. Because someone does not believe in gay marriage, this does not make them a ‘sexually repressed homophobe”, on that argument, you could say that as long as someone does not live the same standards as you, you are scared of them. Some of my uni friends don’t do any study for classes, do I now have a phobia of them because I think it important to study? There is not hate, or intolerance.
it never says anything about hate. the article tells members to be kind and tolerant. everyone sins, it would be weird to hate some one for something every one does.
the article pretty much says “people can choose what they want, we dont agree, love every one” sounds fair to me.
The article says nothing about hate. i was replying to the comment of Ali who says the word hate…
Where exactly does this statement demonstrate hate? Please, give me an exact quote from the statement.
You can accuse and name call all you want, but it’s you who ends up demonstrating hate and intolerance.
Thanks for standing up for something! We all need to stop letting certain social groups define our behavior in any way other than what it really is. I only see “love” coming from the “intolerant” churches, and “Hate” from social groups who think everyone that doesn’t believe and practice what they believe, are bigoted, hating, uneducated, hicks. It’s time to stand up for our beliefs! If it’s not too late already! Laws of the Land will never supersede Divine Law. Who’s side are we on?!
Your language demonstrates uncivil behavior and intolerance. If you need to, think in terms of the here and now and the proven record of following these basic tenants of faith and the resulting fruit that they produce for the betterment of society. Please read the statements with an open mind and the details about recognizing basic rights for all. And what did you expect.
*tenets
Is that seething hate I sense in this comment? Sure seems so.
In relation to judgment day, there are many things in life we will be judged for (all unrepented sins to my understanding), but there is no question as to whether homosexuality is a sin. It is, according to God, who will do the judging. All he asks is that we defend His commandments. We can’t and stop homosexuals from sinning, nor can we stop heterosexuals from sinning, but the least we can do is warn all, that actions have consequences, and while we are free to choose the action, we are not free to choose the consequence.
It seems to me like you are the filled with hate and intolerance. If you believe in God or the bible then you obviously haven’t read it because what they state is very clear in the scriptures. We don’t have to agree, but there’s no need to have a bigoted attitude and throw out insults. This article may not agree with what we believe, but that is their right. You are making us all look bad with your childish retort.
now that is enlightened
Your response and reaction gives me hope for the love and tolerance that we all should have for one another.
AMEN!!! Thank you for your kindness and understanding! ⭕️❌????????
No where does this announcement indicate hatred of gay people. The only person using hate rid is you. We have the civil right to our religious beliefs.
Reading comprehension failure! I’m more inclined to agree with someone quoting the bible vs an anonymous whining post like yours!
Peace – you need it!
I think we’re willing to risk what happens on judgement day to follow the prophet. Your statement is pretty full of hate and intolerance yourself. Too bad you couldn’t see any good in what was said. In order for our society to live and work together we are going to have to stop pointing fingers and try and understand one another. Just a little bit would go a long ways.
You are an ignorant potlicker.
This seems in line with what any Christian would believe if he or she believes in Bible teachings. How do you think God defines marriage?
Your imagination must not be that good. Most Christian faiths teach that homosexuality is wrong. Islam claims that their God does not allow homosexuality. Buddhism does not support it either. Hinduism beliefs vary from temple to temple, with no central authority to set forth a central policy.
No need for hatred Sori. This is pretty simple. The church is following God’s laws as taught in the scriptures. There’s no hatred toward homosexuals, we just don’t bend the laws of God for convenience when the times or popular opinion changes. The easy thing to do is follow popular opinion.
We love gay people as much as anyone else. We just disagree that God’s law condones homosexuality. It never has and it never will. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Love ya!
I agree that in some cases (hopefully most) a mother and father in the home, strong together in faith, is a very good thing. Divorce is condemned in the Bible–yet it happens even within the Church. A bride is to be stoned if found not to be a virgin, but we don’t do that. What is the reference of the words of Christ are we using? The references are from the Levitical Law and the writings of Paul. Where are the quotes from latter day scriptures-the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price and Doctrine and Covenants? We need to be careful in how we put forth scripture to be sure it is accurate and centered on Christ
Sori,
I want you to read this chapter of Leviticus before you spew any more hatred to others. Those leaders did not make the rules.
Chapter 18
Israel shall not live as the Egyptians and the Canaanites—Marriages to many close relatives and others are forbidden—Homosexual behavior and other sexual perversions are an abomination—The land expels those nations that practice sexual abominations.
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the Lord your God.
3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.
4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the Lord your God.
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the Lord.
6 ¶None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the Lord.
7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
8 The nakedness of thy father’s wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father’s nakedness.
9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
10 The nakedness of thy son’s daughter, or of thy daughter’s daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
11 The nakedness of thy father’s wife’s daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father’s sister: she is thy father’s near kinswoman.
13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother’s sister: for she is thy mother’s near kinswoman.
14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father’s brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son’s wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother’s wife: it is thy brother’s nakedness.
17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son’s daughter, or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour’s wife, to defile thyself with her.
21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the Lord.
22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:
25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.
26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:
27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)
28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.
29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.
30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.
So I guess Joseph Smith and BY broke God’s commandant’s when they married and sometimes had sex with woman who were married to other men, otherwise known as polyandry???And before you you claim that’s a lie do your due diligence of church history.
…and that is why you’re not a member of the LDS church. You aren’t under this law and advice unless you are a member. This is to guide the members. If you don’t like tennis, don’t join a tennis club but please don’t stand outside and tell them how to play. You’re not LDS, this doesn’t apply to you. Have a nice day :)
Religious freedom! I applaud the LDS church for providing information and reminding its members of their beliefs even though common law has changed. I’m not LDS but agree 100% with this letter and the guidance church leaders have provided. And if you don’t like it, don’t become LDS or any other religion that you do not agree with. Again, we’re all entitled to religious freedom. Amen
Well said MOG3…
I’m sure you know that not only do Muslims not allow same-sex marriage, but they also behead them and drag their bodies through the streets. Why don’t you focus your attention on that, asshole.
God has clearly stated what he thinks about homosexuality a thousand times in the bible. I would suggest reading it some time. Perhaps read Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13.
We don’t use as you say “the word of a mightier source to camouflage your hate and intolerance”. We are simply stating what God has said. What we believe. But just because we believe in not practicing homosexuality, that does not mean that we hate people who do. We sorrow over their disrespect for Gods law and we fear for their eternal welfare. We can only hope that people will change for the better. And most of the time homosexuality is a choice. In the few cases where homosexuality is not a choice of the individual, such as birth defects in the brain. To those individuals we believe that God will not punish them because they have no understanding and no choice in the matter. But to those who choose to engage in homosexuality, knowing God’s law, for them we pray, because to them is the greater condemnation if they do not repent and change. Just as it is with any sin.
these men do not hate anyone for the choices that people decide to make. everyone is there own person and they can make there own choices. if a man decides to have feelings for another man that is his choice. it doesn’t change the fact that he is still human, and a son of god. the leaders of the church know this and teach to all who will listen, to love and care for anyone and everyone. i believe in a loving heavenly father and his son Jesus Christ. i also believe that the scriptures and all of its contents are on earth, written the way they are, for a specific reason. and in those scriptures it states that marriage is between a man, and a women. its there in the text. it was gods intention for us to have two types of humans, a man and a women. there’s a reason why we are made differently. we were made to complete each other. this is what i believe. and i do have friends and family members who are homosexual. it doesn’t change the way i treat, feel, or think about them. its there choice, not mine. there is no hate, fear, or intolerance in this matter what so ever. there may be other individuals out in the world who do judge and discriminate against homosexuals, but i assure you these men are doing nothing but good things, and are not judging, but rather spreading the word of god.
Sound like you’re the one full of hate. Respect works both ways. What have you done to repect people’s choice to a traditional marriage between a man and a woman?
If we are the ones that God will punish come judgment day, then you need not be angry with us now. Let God judge between me and thee.
God is a god based on his principles, not on the principles that the world says He is based on. So no matter how you put it or think of it, as clearly stated in the bible (mind you one of the only books in the world that every Christian accepts as God’s word), gay marriage is wrong and against God’s standards. Simple as that.
sori, by definition you are bigot! big·ot
ˈbiɡət/
noun
a person who is intolerant toward those holding different opinions.
Lol, sounds like you don’t know the scriptures, and are not even a member of this church. You believe your right and that’s fine, but if your religious and know the scriptures INDEED God has said it’s sin, props for the Mormon church in standing by their beliefs! You show intolerance and ignorance when you call out a religious organization that follows what they preach. Obviously you fight because you don’t understand religious laws, nor what God has said.
If you think the supreme Court is gods say on anything then I have to wonder if you would know bullshit if you saw it
Sori, if you don’t believe it, why do you care? This addresses LDS Church members ONLY. Are you a member? Now that gay couples can legally marry, why don’t you just leave these people alone? It’s unlikey that they will ever change your views, and you will never change their.
Sori, I promise you that there is no hatred towards anyone outside (or even inside for that matter) of the LDS church. We simply were commanded since the beginning of the earth to multiply and replenish the earth (have children). That can’t be done without the marriage between a man and a women. We believe that marriage between a man and woman is essential to Gods plan. Not only that, but children who grow up in a home without a father or a mother lose a big understanding in life. I know they do because my mom has raised me alone. I know I have a missing understanding in life because I’m missing a crucial role in the house, a father. It’s a very crucial thing in life for a kid to grow up in a house with a father and a mother. I’m 15 years old. I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I can testify that marriage between a man and a woman is very essential and that there is no hate towards anybody who supports or believes in same-sex marriage. Thank you for listening.
Calm down Sori! Stop your hate filled rant. I am really offended by what you posted and you owe me an apology. You are angry at the truth and it cuts you to your very core. It must be hard for you and others to live with yourself because of all your hate towards those who represent God. These men are not homophobes. They fear no one, especially gays. I mean really, what are you going to do? Give them one of your limp wristed slaps? Why are you still complaining anyway? You won the right to sodomize in the bonds of holy matrimony. Why are you still so angry?
Wow Sori.
Are you even reading the same article as the rest of us? It says over and over again that we should be tolerant, and you call that intolerance. Your comments are the most intolerant I have ever seen. Please read your own comments and see for yourself.
http://www.wikihow.com/Improve-Critical-Thinking-Skills
I felt that this letter was very kindly written and clearly expounded to its church members that they are to be tolerant and loving to those who engage in same sex marriage. I’m not sure where you’re coming from here but I would be happy to hear clarification as long as you’re respectful.
If you cant say something nice, don’t say nothing at all
-Thumper
So what is the anger for? That is to reaffirm what we believe in. It is your choice to decide if you will marry some one of the same sex, opposite sex or an animal. The church teaches you the correct principle and allows you govern yourself
We have ourselves a keyboard warrior. Luckily our little buddy has an insight on what judgement day will be like. Who needs to learn it from the Scriptures when you can use your imagination. All mormons obviously hate homosexuals, if they loved homosexuals they’d definitely change all their beliefs to make everyone happy…
So let’s all fill our hearts with hate because the mormons believe marriage is between a man and a woman.
Interesting how now that the law is passed those who disagree with views other than their own criticize individuals who are trying exercising a belief that feels right to them, when they demand acceptance for their belief. I thought love won? Why is there no love shown from the pro gay population toward those of us who accept you but don’t agree with you. It’s sad how hate is winning.
Hmmm, I did not read within the content anything related to hate nor intolerance.
Wow. Such hate and intolerance while condemning hate and intolerance. Amazing hypocrisy.
This shows much tolerance unlike your comments claiming the high ground. Even the science shows procreating is with a man and woman….
I have a feeling the men of God that wrote this will be comfortable with the judgment they’ll receive….
To Sori: The only vitriol hate I read is that coming out of your mouth. I have family members who are homosexuals. Do I hate them? No. But because God has said that these are unnatural relationships, I have to go with Him. That doesn’t make me a homophobic, any more than your disagreeing with me makes you a heterosexual phobic.
The idea of sexual orientation opens the door further with all aspects of “sexual choice”. This includes sex with young children, sex with animals, sex with any foreign object and this includes sex with the dead.
If the above is natural and should the “Right” be given to any and all upon this earth even upon the foundation that if that person does not believe in God why are there sexually transmitted diseases?
It is a sad thing to cry against the LDS Church when its foundation is following the teachings of the Old and New Testament in the King James Version of the Bible and desire to change this little-bit of value and standard and twist these words of God to your own design. And with this I add that even Martin Luther King Jr. would not walk by your side in this ugly call for freedom!
You’re bull shit, honestly humans are not dolphins.. matter of fact what would the world be today if it was Adam and Steve? Well the human race would cease to exist.. So while you’re taking a brown hole pounding – remember this pooh shooters don’t make any human babies. Same goes for the carpet divers.
Listen to yourself. Who’s the hateful and intolerant one here?
Dear Sori, your attitude, full of anger, is very opposite of the tolerance you proclaim about.
Thank you for your thoughts on this subject, as you are entitled to your opinion. I, myself, believe that I will be judged for my faith and obedience to the Word of God. When judgement day comes, can you say the same for yourself? If so, then you, my friend have nothing to worry about. Have a blessed day.
Noone is hating here. This is how it’s been since the the beginning of time. It all started with Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. You wouldn’t be here if everyone could be gay.
Thank you for your love filled, tolerant, respecting of everyone’s right to believe what they want rant. (Sarcasm )
Sori, your statements here reflect the very thing the brethren are talking about with regard to tolerance of other people’s views and beliefs. Frankly I question whether you actually read the statement or just hopped onto the comments section without an open heart. Would it kill you to be civil and have a reasonable response. You may disagree with what the brethren are saying, however, using bad language and calling people meaningless names shows a lack of intelligence and thought. What happened to “love wins?” Is calling names and using vulgar language a sign of love, respect and acceptance? Isn’t that the very tenant the Supreme Court based its decision on? Yet you have decided to use the opposite approach in your comment. I find that this is a typical response from the same sex marriage camp. You want tolerance, yet you don’t see fit to give it in return. You want hate to stop, yet hate burns hot in your soul. You want to be loved, yet lack any understanding of what true love really is. You want religion to not be shoved down your throat, yet you joyfully slam your beliefs into our faces. I respect your beliefs I just completely disagree.
read the bible, it clearly states homosexuality is wrong, in several places
Way to show your bigotry you hypocrite…
You’re dumb.
did you just call anyone hateful Or intolerant? Should WE all act like you in your loving comment
“Vulgarity is poverty of expression”…you realize by your harsh words and judgment towards the church that you are being intolerant of their beliefs…interesting that the gay community asks for tolerance and acceptance yet when someone holds to the belief of the traditional marriage they are immediately bombarded with labels such as “intolerant”, “unaccepting”, “bigot”…when we hold that right to believe what we may…so accept their belief and respect it.
What about your comment is meant to express love, acceptance, understanding, and the rights of individuals to live according to their own conscience? At least the guidance issued by the LDS leaders expressed all of those things. It also did so without relinquishing the church’s right to the believe and teach according to their faith. You can’t expect others to loose their rights while demanding yours be honored. If you don’t agree with a church’s doctrine then do not go to that church… pretty simple.
First off, clearly you need to read more. Second… did you even Read the article? Are the gay men that stand behind this “sexually repressed homophobes?” How about the men that said to “Love them” or that “advocated for rights of same‐sex couples in matters of hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment…”. Seriously man, don’t throw slander if you don’t actually take the time to hear the other side. We have listened to your arguments, and listened to more, and been morally, professionally, and socially attacked because we can’t stand by beliefs that are stated in the bible. Why is that? Why can’t we have a belief and stick with it? Do we have to conform to mob mentality, because you sound like the mobs that have unjustly murdered and tortured thousands of people. Instead of asking us for “more love and acceptance”, try getting some yourself.
I love and respect our heavenly fathers plan. And when we as members say same sex marriage goes against Heavenly Fathers plan please understand we are not being disrespectful or judgemental we are simply defending that plan. The plan teaches us about multiplying and this is to be done between a man and a woman who are legally married to create eternal families. We are taught aswell to love and respect everyone no matter what and I hope we all can and do
The fact that you have to “accept” people of same sex relations makes you sound like you are belittling them or making it sound like their is something wrong with them. I would hate it if someone said, “My bible says no to what you are doing but I will accept you anyways.” Dude just be a good friend and don’t make it sound like your going out of your way to put up with them. It blows my mind how people can treat other people and can’t just equalized everyone from the get-go. Why do you have to make it such a big deal you don’t like gay marriage DONT MARRY SOMEONE OF YOUR GENDER, END OF STORY.
I don’t understand why the church has to get involved, we don’t need your negative minds stop living in the 1900s and progress with the nation. The bible is how old? Yeah, and you “live” your life by it. Hmmmm. Marriage is no longer a strictly religious thing it is now a government documented thing so that already takes the religious aspect out of it. So, now we need to find more separation between church and state at that point.
I also hate that most every LDS person will tell me how bad gay marriage is when everyone sins I have yet to meet a perfect person. I know people that smoke dope on the weekends and party then the next sunday get up to the podium and tell everyone all about their love for god and their belief in the church. I have neighbors that are full blown mormon they give me dirty looks because I am tattood and they push their kids inside. But sometimes I go out and look at the stars and all I can hear is the mom yelling at the top of her lungs being a total asshole to her kids. Calling them stupid and bullying them. While her husband does the same to her in the mornings. How is this the biggest issue? How are these sins okay and I am going to hell for tattoos or others for being gay? I don’t understand. I’ve seen many many marriages from religious lds people fall apart from one person being addicted to pills drugs porn or whatever. I’ve seen hearts broken from people who cheated on their “sealed” temple wife/husband. Then I get shit from mormons saying I will accept you. BITCH before you sit and try to “accept me” make sure your following everything your book says because I guarentee if Jesus is as genuine of a person as he is brought out to be then he would look at any homosexual person, hug them and tell them he loves them and not say one day word about their relationship. And if he didn’t I don’t want anything to do with that church because he doesn’t truly love me.
Hypocrisy and pride are the most common and from what I can see the most grevious sins of all people. Point people to jesus and they will work out their salvation with them as he has with us. Intolerant tolerance is hard to receive when eyes have not been opened. Just feels like unloving rejection. Been on both sides. Praying for all eyes to be opened.
Sori: The reality is that Scripture reveals God’s say on homosexuality, whether you like it or agree with it, or not! Don’t find yourself exhibiting the hate and intolerance you are attributing to others!
The “mightier source” to which you refer is Heavenly Father. While it may go way beyond your imagination that the stance reiterated by the Lord’s prophet in the above statement is actually from God, it is nonetheless, in the scriptures. A prophet of God is not judged harshly when they represent Him and his counsel to the world, but rather when they shrink from such duties because of their fear of the reprisal of man and popular opinion.
The prophet’s words do not camouflage hate but rather reveal the love that our Heavenly Father has for us and the desire that He has for us to be clean and pure so that we may enjoy the full blessings of the Gospel. These statements do not teach hate, instead they teach love of oneself and love for our fellow man. Happiness only comes through adherence to gospel principals and that includes the moral code that accompanies them.
Very well said!
Well said. I think we need to uphold God’s Laws but still be respectful for those who choose to do otherwise. We don’t buy into this homophobe stuff. The Lord does know best. His rules of conduct are really for our temporal and eternal happiness. I have a relative who is gay. It doesn’t make me happy, but I still love him. Upholding God’s laws will be increasingly unpopular with the way the world is going, but there is no safety in numbers and there is no eternal reward for choosing a path counter to what the Lord has given. The Lord’s commandments are the same yesterday, today and forever.
Respect and toleration goes both ways. There are those that persecute others for their beliefs on both sides of this issue. The men responsible for this statement are not among these. Respect and toleration will come from them to you, I ask that it also come from you to them.
If you aren’t a member of this particular church it should be none of your business what their counsel is to their members.
Chelsea, That would be true, if this church wasn’t known for asking its members to donate both time and money toward denying other people rights. Remember prop 8?
Personally, I say live and let live but from a historical (biblical) perspective, homosexuality has long been frowned upon in every part of the world as is the case in the Old Testament only today we aren’t actively stoning people for it, at least in the US but of course it still happens in the middle east (but lets not go there). Such an example would be Sodom and Gomorrah (if there ever was such a place) was destroyed by “God” for harboring and encouraging that kind of lifestyle. It’s not my place to judge others but if we are taking scripture at face value then there’s no way to wiggle out of the fact that God doesn’t seem to approve of it. The Bible is also very specific as to the fact that God is perfect and therefore never changes, to do so he/she would cease to be perfect. To make the argument that God is ok with it now but then it was bad suggests societies attempt to make it ok so they can sleep better at night. Really though I could care less, it doesn’t affect me.
If you take scripture at face value you also believe that dinosaurs didn’t exist and that Adam and Eve did which has long been dis proven by today’s science. Anyone that takes bible scripture as 100% true is living in a delusional world and they refuse to look at it any other way.
Now I’m not personally attacking your statement as you noted you really don’t care I was just adding.
No one should EVER take scripture at face value. Without personal confirmation of its teachings, it will always appear to be fictional delusion. “If you don’t feel close to God, who moved?” We may not presently understand how God’s science includes dinosaurs, but we can have faith that someday He will teach us, if we are humble enough to listen with an open heart.
We should ALL be concerned about the acceptance of the gay marriage movement, and even more concerned about the nation’s increasing acceptance of it. The best situation for a child to be brought up in is an intact family with loving parents – his/her own father & mother. Of course, due to varying circumstances, not every child can have that – but we should be trying to come as close to that as we can for every child. I believe that God will hold nations responsible for how they care for their children. In His eyes it is immoral for a pair of men or a pair of women to live as if they were married. Now that we’ve given such couples the marriage title & rights to adopt, we are allowing children to be raised in immoral circumstances, and we’ve given the national stamp of approval for it. In biblical times, what happened to nations who turned their faces away from God and went their own way? Is there any reason to believe that our nation will have different consequences than the ones those nations faced? However, nations that are turned toward God are blessed. This is what we should work for in ours. And this is why we should ALL be concerned about this issue.
loved your comment Jason but it DOES affect you. It affects all of Society when their laws go contrary to God. It will affect your children when they have this indoctrination shoved at them in school. That’s the problem. sound, moral values are banned and Christian principles are forbidden and persecuted but the other side is flaunted, celebrated and forced upon us who disagree with them. Funny how it DOESN”T work both ways….That’s because “the adversary” never intends to play fair.
You don’t have to agree with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints nor do you have to belong, so why start the argument? The First Presidency and the Apostles are encouraging the membership to be kind and non confrontational despite disagreeing with the ruling yet here you are being confrontational and unkind and calling names. Seems to me the intolerance and hate is coming from you because The Church doesn’t agree with you. According to the Meriam-Webster Dictionary the definition of tolerant is: “willing to accept feelings, habits, or beliefs THAT ARE DIFFERENT THAN YOU” By this definition the Church is the tolerant party and you are not. The membership of the Church is being asked to accept feelings, habits, or beliefs that are different” than those of the Church AND to be kind and non-confrontational about it. “Accepting” these feelings, habits or beliefs doesn’t mean that a person, and in this case a church has to jump on the bandwagon and CHANGE their beliefs to match. It comes down to “agreeing to disagree” and doing so in a civil manner without name calling and violence. So again, you don’t have to belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints if you don’t agree with the teachings of it, there are plenty of other places you can go and be apart of where the members agree with you.
So you think god condones gay marriage. You poor misguided individual
First off, I am a supporter of gay marriage, and we could go back and forth and debate all day, but at the end of the day that is exactly what God’s views are (according to the bible). There are so many scriptures that could be used to show this, but for the sake of not going on an unnecessary rant, I will stick to the one that puts it most clear.Leviticus 18:22, “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.”. Not everything God says is easy to hear, nor will we personal agree with it, but it is very clear what the law is.
I will never ever accept that God is wrong, never. SCOTUS, God is not wrong! Why is the definition of marriage from God’s word, your liberal right to change. I love all man and womankind but now I worry we have 6 out of 9 Judges who believe they have not only the ability to legislate but also to change God’s rules and laws.
Did you that the men that wrote these words or chosen of God and you just said what they said is *******. I’m sorry for you man or whatever you are, you need to repent cause what they say here it’s what Jesus Christ himself would of said if He was here on earth. They are his representatives. Why you always feel bad if someone has different views on homosexuality? If you knew it was good, why would you feel offended or whatever? People that know that they are defending a good cause would never react that way. If you’re a homosexual or if you support it, it’s simply wrong, not because you want to do something or support something that it’s not wrong. God says it’s wrong it’s just wrong. Who are you to say otherwise after God has said something? With all my respect, homosexuality is against God will. Do you want him to appear in person to say that it is wrong. It’s against nature, how can someone of the same sex even multiply the earth, you personal part weren’t meant to be with the same sex. Look how men and women are created, they complete each other they become one flesh in the process of making children, it’s just the opposite with the same sex. take your time to reflect, even if it’s not in a religious matter, it’s just wrong! That’s it that’s all, and you should stop trying promoting homosexual behavior, it doesn’t even make any sense. Man with a man, woman with a woman. I think you should start thinking better. Actually I will not say more you all know that is wrong, you just trying to promote something that is simply wrong.
I agree, it`s behavioral.
Dear Sori,
I would stand with you to protect your constitutional right to speak publicly about you views on this issue I just wish you possessed the vocabulary and class to express yourself in a more dignified and constructive manner.
Do people that “hate” ask for those that agree with them to respect those that have a differing opinion? No. Do LDS members have a phobia of homosexuals? No. They don’t fear them. The letter explicitly states they welcome them to their church.
Homosexuality is no different that pre-marital sex by those of the opposite sex. Both have always been called sins, no matter the century or decade. Yes, society that used to frown on cohabitation of couples, no longer does. More and more, society tells us that it’s ok to center life around your sex life. For those that do, what a sad superficial life it must be.
Judgment Day? Clear scriptural precedent denouncing sex outside of marriage and how grave a sin it is whether it’s same sex or opposite sex. Also clear scriptural precedent saying to warn others of the wages of sin and to not cower to the teachings of flesh.
This announcement is clearly not one of hate. It’s one of consistency and of principles.
The definition of tolerance is not those that agree with you. You have none.
You need to read the Bible my friend. It clearly states exactly what God said and what is stated above is just that. I am so glad that a church finally stood up and defended what GOD said to do and how to do it. People don’t like it because they know it is the truth and do not want to follow it. Instead they follow the trends of man….and that my friend is what is wrong with this entire nation and world.
Sori, The intolerance seems to be coming from you, rather than the article. Just how familiar are you with the scriptures, and with what has been taught about homosexuality all through them? Read first, then criticize.
they gave direct quotes from the bible, retard.
The Bible says homosexuailty is an abomination, God did create man and take a rib from that man to make woman and he told them to go forward and multiply ,he doesn’t intend on man with man and woman with women,but he also says love the sinner hate the sin!
Sori!., I’m so sorry but i guess you need to read it again cause it seems like you havn’t understand it yet. Ok?✌
What your saying is ignorant. The LDS faith is tolerant of all people regardless of race, creed or sexuality. Nobody is passing judgement here (except you) or bending scripture for any sort of advantage.
Our scripture is our scripture. It’ll be the same as it was yesterday,today and tomorrow. If you don’t like it fine. Don’t become a member of the church and don’t hate on us because we stand for what we believe in.
I have a relative who is gay i love him to bits if he as a gay marriage i will go because i love him, but i also love our Heavenly Father and will stick by his word that man should not lie down with man and i surport what the first presidency say on the matter, God loves my relative as much as me
Sori,
what? Read it again. I think you misunderstood what you read.
Too bad your two fathers created you. Or did you accidently get here with a mother and a father?
You sound hateful and sounds like you need help.
I have a lot of gay friends n I love them it’s there choice who am i to judge so what are you talking about
Dude your intolerance is SHOWING
The LDS church will not deviate from the clear scriptural declarations regarding this matter. Old and New Testament is very clear on it. Plenty of churches which have gone along with the current acceptance of this matter. LDS do not. If you are not LDS, then the announcement given is not aimed at you, and what you do is your choice.
I think you do protest too loudly. What are you guilty of that you have to bash a group of people who do show love to all people? Maybe they try to follow the precepts of God a little more than you are willing to do, so what. At least they do show love where what you my dear are doing is showing hate. I have a gay child. So what, I love that child. I may not like his behavior at times and his decisions that do not follow Gods teachings, but I also do not like the behavior of another child who thinks he was made as a gift to woman kind and likes to share a little much of himself. I love him also but again I do not accept his behavior as Godly behavior and in the LDS Church he can also be either excommunicated or disfellowshipped. Repentance is a process, we all go through. Even some day you will understand. But not until you can leave the hate behind.
Thank you for the kind correspondence on the above matter. I have been very opposed to the marriage of homosexuals for many reasons. Mainly I feel like it is an attempt by Satan to dishearten men and women from reaching a marriage commitment (and saving the law God instilled in our hearts). I know Satan has tried to break our eternal ties to our virtues and love for our soul to return peacefully to heaven. This is just one easy way for Satan to tighten his already wrong hold on the GLT couples so they can continue to break God and Jesus’ ties to mankind. Or at least to the correct laws to live by to make holiness prevail on earth and Satan’s job here less seemingly affluent. The strength of Satan has to be thwarted by loving and obedient people whom would just exclaim “It is too bad for them my child, my dear life companion, but as for us we will be just fine!”
Well said!
This is complete hogwash!!!!!!!!!! This kind of thinking is what’s holding us back as a society. To assume or hint that being gay is a choice is absolutely irresponsible and absurd. These are hurtful and hateful words. Shame on the church.
Noone said being gay is a choice – living in a homosexual relationship is. Just like living together as a heterosexual couple and having sexual relationships outside of marriage is a choice, which we believe is contrary to God’s commandments. If a heterosexual guy happens to fall in love with a married woman, it is not the falling in love that would be against the commandments, which probably wasn’t a choice, but acting on it and entering into a relationship with that married woman.
This is Gods thinking taken straight from the scriptures. If you don’t believe in God or are not a christian you shouldn’t be offended by our beliefs. The LDS church is just following Gods council and the scriptures.God is the same today,tomorrow,and forever he is unchanging and will not change for society.
This is not members picking and choosing laws, not even the first presidency is picking and choosing anything here! These are eternal laws, given to us by God himself that have existed from the beginning of time, and nine guys choosing to vote on it cannot change God’s laws. The thing is that this life is not about this life, but about eternity, and God gave us his commandments with that perspective in mind.
Sorry, that reply is in the wrong spot!
It says nothing of being gay being a choice. It says how one might respond or act on homosexual feelings is a choice.
so, apparently the words of God and the Bible are hogwash and disrespectful???? And yes, being gay is a CHOICE. It is a temptation that these individuals succumbed and gave in to
it never says being gay is a choice, it says it is a sin. the article tells members to be kind and tolerant. everyone sins, it would be weird to hate some one for something every one does.
the article pretty much says “people can choose what they want, we dont agree, love every one” sounds fair to me.
Nowhere did the church assume or hint that being gay is a choice. Choosing to act on feelings is a choice. Having those feelings is not a choice. The church clearly distinguishes from the two. Also, the words are not hateful. The real shame here isn’t the church; it’s that you appear to have the reading comprehension of a four year old.
Go look up the gay pride March on the internet also for the year 2013.Look at the children’s faces as they watch these lewd displays. No one Will ever convince me that God created people this way.Satan is very much in control of the gay rights movement.
I am happy the church and other faiths are taking a stance against this evil and it is evil.Go look up the gay pride march on the internet also for the year 2013.Look at the childrens’ faces as they watch these lewd displays throughout the entire march. No one will ever convince me that God created people this way.Satan is very much in control of the gay rights movement.
The letter doesn’t say that homosexuality is a choice, but rather acting upon such desires is.“Homosexual BEHAVIOR violates the commandments of God.”
Every action begins with a choice, no one denies that homosexuals are actually attracted to each other, no person I know thinks they are pretending, just so they can trample God’s laws. What’s holding us back as a society is the lack of respect different people with different opinions have for each other. I believe in God, please respect that I don’t agree with homosexual marriage, nor any sexual relations outside of a man and womanly at are lawfully married.
They don’t assume or hint that it’s a choice. These are not hateful words at all. You need to get your head on straight. No pun intended. Stop being a hypocrite and show love. We can disagree with what they say without insulting them. That’s just ignorant and bigoted. Others have claimed Christians are the bigots, when they themselves are acting like a bigot. Most Christians disagree with our lifestyle, but have done so with kindness and love. Don’t perpetuate the hate.
Sounds like someone needs to come out of the closet to me….
It doesn’t say that being gay is a choice, it’s days being sexually active is a choice.
This seems in line with what any Christian would believe if he or she believes in Bible teachings. How do you think God defines marriage?
Feeling homosexual feelings is not a sin.
Living homosexually is, and that is definitely a choice.
Some people with homosexual feelings choose a better way.
That’s what the LDS Church teaches.
Behaviours are a choice – if not then why would we punish anyone if we didn’t think they could curb or change their behaviour. Why would we have psychologists or counsellors? Behaviours and desires can be changed over time, it’s not easy when you have a predisposition, but Heavenly fathers help (who made us with our predispositions) it is possible, and great happiness awaits those that put in the effort. Trust me ;)
Its not hurtful or hateful words. Believing in a higher standard of morals created by a higher power is not hateful. We believe in those standards but that doesn’t mean that we don’t love and respect people who don’t believe or practice.
And i would say that about %98 of the time it is a choice to be Gay. Just as a person chooses to get angry, it is the same. We all have the potential to develop feelings for the opposite sex, however most people are preoccupied with the natural and more powerful attraction to the opposite sex. As it was designed. There are some cases, the other %2, in which some children are born with a birth defect in their brain in which the chemicals in the brain are out of balance. Making it easier to like the opposite sex.
Rick, not sure if you are a member of The LDS church or not but remember, if your testimony is not strong enough to heed the prophet, you are more than welcome to have your records removed. I believe this is a “weeding out” process and a true test of one’s testimony.
And yet they didn’t make assumptions that it was a choice. Even if we assume, for the moment, that every single homosexual person was born that way, God still says it is wrong.
I’m concerned that you see anything hateful about this. Did we read the same article? “The gospel of Jesus Christ teaches us to love and treat all people with kindness and civility—even when we disagree…While opposing homosexual behavior, the Church reaches out with understanding and respect to individuals who are attracted to those of the same gender.” It doesn’t say, ‘shun homosexuals’ or ‘bully people with different views’ it says that you should treat EVERYONE with respect and kindness. You can think what you want and say what you want but please don’t put down my religion or anyone else’s. I hope you can see with a broader perspective and see that these hurtful words that you publish don’t get anyone anywhere and just start fights. I wish you well.
Did anyone order you to believe this? Since the birth of our nation, people have been free to have and express opposing viewpoints. You do…why can’t they? That’s what America was founded on, and it’s going to stay that way.
They didn’t say it’s a choice to be gay, they said if are gay you can chose what lifestyle you want to live. Some will chose to remain active members of the LDS church.
Okay, that is one way of looking at it, but one day when they find a cure for homosexuality, you are going to feel really embarrassed by what you just posted.
When you say “this kind of thinking is what’s holding us back as a society” you are absolutely right. Holding us back from the spiral into destruction.
If you read everything, it specifically says that people who struggle with same gender attraction, but who continue to live the law of chastity, as we are all commanded to do, can continue on in good standing, including holding a temple recommend. This is perfect equality, because the exact same rules apply to every single member, no matter who they’re attracted to. It never said being gay is a choice. It does say, however, that our actions and behaviors are a choice. Just because I have heterosexual attractions, and that’s the way I was born, does that mean I can just act on those urges no matter what? I still have to obey the law of chastity if I want to remain in good standing. Same rules for everyone.
Shame on you and no shame on the church!
Actually, the official church position, as outlined in the pamphlet “God Loveth All His Children” states that we do not know why some people feel same gender attraction. This letter states that it is a choice to be sexually active, that marriage was instituted by God to be between a man and a woman, and that we don’t get to tell God what to do. We believe in the law of chastity. Being chaste means having no sexual relations outside of marriage between a man and a wife. It is the same standard for everyone, homosexual, heterosexual, or otherwise.
Shame on you too you think you are civilized but you are worse than dogs who know difference between male and female.
You cannot shame on the church. Any religion that believes in God does not believe in homosexuality!!
Unless I missed something, I didn’t see anything about people choosing same sex attraction. This issue is multi fauceted. The Churches stand is that (according to the scriptures) ANY sexual relation outside of the marriage covenant created and ordained of God is against His endorsement and approval. The Church doesn’t make this law, God does. God equally disapproves of pre marital, and extra marital affairs. It is only when one acts on these attractions and temptations is it considered outside of Gods commands. It is not against nature for man to have attractions outside of what God has ordained. It is for us to overcome the natural man, resist those temptations, ask for Gods help and obstain from anything outside of what He has ordained. No one said it was easy, no one said it was fun. None of us should judge others who have same sex attractions brcause all of us have temptations outside of what God has ordained.
If you cared to read the article, at no point does anyone state that same-sex attraction is a choice. In fact, this article says quite the opposite. It’s no secret that people feel homosexual attraction, just like it’s no secret that heterosexual attraction exists. The church simply states that acting upon those feelings outside the bounds of marriage is a sin. That holds true for homosexuals and heterosexuals. That’s the point. Just because the country where you live determines something is legal does not change God’s teachings. No where in the Bible does it say it’s okay to engage in homosexual activities. If you choose to do so, that’s your choice, just like it’s your choice to give to the poor, steal or honor your patents. That’s the point of this life. We have a choice. If you choose certain actions, there are consequences, in this life and the next. God’s law is not dictated by man’s law.
I have family members that are gay. Some of them act upon those feelings while others do not. That’s their choice. I don’t treat any one of them any differently. In fact, I greatly respect people that struggle with those feelings, because yes, some for some of them it is a struggle. It’s not my place to judge or treat you any different because of your choices. Christ certainly wouldn’t be holding up signs for or against gay marriage. He simply would be teaching the higher law and loving everyone regardless. Agency, it’s one of the greatest gifts we ever received.
Do you have proof that it is not a choice?
By “a choice” do you mean to assume or hint that being gay is genetic? If so then you are being irresponsible and absurd. The science behind homosexual has far from answered any questions either direction. Regardless, whether it is a choice or not has no importance as the real issue is whether you choose to act on it. As a straight person you are still expected to not act on the feelings outside of marriage, there are many unmarried straight people and many who will never married that are held to these expectations.
Those that seem to oppose what is written, didn’t seem to read it or don’t understand. It was clearly stated this is not against any individual. Stating that the church hates people is wrong. Its like saying that because a trucking company upholds a standard that you can’t come to work drunk is showing hate against people that drink, and some say that they discriminate is just ridiculous. The best part about this country is you have every right to not participate. If you don’t like a groups ideal to hold people accountable and encourage them to uphold higher standards, then stop complaining and choose another group.
Everything we do in our life is based upon a choice that we make, to say otherwise is irresponsible and absurd; why we make that choice is up to God to judge when that day comes. Meanwhile we are given scripture and guidelines which we either choose to believe and follow, or not; if we choose not to follow that guidance based on any other perspective, belief, etcetera we will be responsible for that choice as well. If you do not agree with people who disagree with your perspective having the right to believe as they do, then why do believe in your right to believe as you do?
If you read carefully without discrimination of your own you’ll find that the church advocated for same sex marriage! The reasons why were stated…. Also that we are required to love and respect all those we do not agree with. We r not biggots. We only ask for the same respect we show you… Please do not attack us for our beliefs tho they are different from yours. I do admit there are those that treat people badly that are in our church and i say shame on them because as a church whole we do not tolerate such behavior. I am the first to stand up for others being judge.
I’m sorry that these words are hurtful for you. I know that the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles did not intend to be hurtful or hateful, but rather to reiterate the Church’s policy on the subject of same-sex attraction and same-sex marriage. Nowhere in this statement does it say that being gay is purely a choice. While there are those who may engage in same-sex activities out of curiosity, it is also understood that there are those who naturally have a tendency towards same-sex attraction. Those individuals are required to conduct themselves in a manner that is consistent with the moral code of the Gospel of Jesus Christ just as much as individuals who feel the urge to act upon opposite-sex attractions under circumstances where it has been expressly forbidden, namely outside the bonds of marriage between a man and a woman.
In fact, the statement quotes the leadership handbook when it says, “If members feel same‐gender attraction but do not engage in any homosexual behavior, leaders should support and encourage them in their resolve to live the law of chastity and to control unrighteous thoughts. These members may receive Church callings. If they are worthy and qualified in every other way, they may also hold temple recommends and receive temple ordinances” (Handbook 2, 21.4.6).
The Lord is aware of all our struggles as he has felt the weight of every one of them himself. He has also promised us the strength that he used to overcome every one of those struggles if we will strive to overcome them ourselves. We don’t have to do it alone. If we ask in faith, he will provide for us, during our struggles with our personal weaknesses, the strength that He used to overcome ALL weaknesses, same-sex attraction, unworthy desires produced by opposite-sex attraction, or what have you.
Yes. Those members with “same-sex attraction” can be fully participating members of the church. Great. But they can never fall in love and have a marriage. Their choice is to stay celibate forever and never have a marriage and children, or marry someone they have no attraction to and live a lie forever.
So it ok to have same sex attraction as long as you dont “partake” in it? What the mormon church needs to understand is how this effects the women. The husband cant be his true self because of the guilt and shame the mormon church makes him feel. So he gets married has a family without ever telling the wifes. All because he has to have this appearance of being normal. I have lived this lie for years! It’s a very lonely and very confusing life. What a shock to learn that 24 years of marriage was nothing but lies!
Rick: Of course being gay is a choice. What evidence do you have to the contrary? It has NEVER been proven that there is a “gay gene!” Everyone, to some degree or another, has experienced same-sex attraction. We all have that potential. It is a matter of choice. Do we follow and act on that or do we resist it. Do we misinterpret it and allow it to dictate our sexual orientation? Do we choose to follow it and allow it to determine our behavior, our identity, or not? Every straight person can choose to be gay, and every gay person can choose to be straight! We all have the ability to choose our sexual orientation, whether we want to admit it or not! I have seen it happen, both ways, because it IS a matter of CHOICE!
Honestly, I beg to differ. I stand with the church and the teachings of the gospel of Christ that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. I know, however that for some people same sex attraction is not a choice that they have made. Obviously we don’t understand all of the hormonal and biological variations associated with this attraction, but I know several faithful members who would never wish to entertain the thoughts of being homosexual, but still struggle with those feelings. Those who have those feelings and make the choice to bridle them in order to live by the doctrine of the plan of salvation have my complete and utmost respect.
President monson is a very wise and godly man. He knows what hes talking about. Even when jesus walked on earth there were people that wouldnt lisen or believe . They had to learn the hard way. Well i guess you people will have to learn the hard way to. God ask very little of us just to love him and obey his commitments. He gave his life for us. I hope it worth what your giving up to live in sin . Ill take enteral life with god and my family .
And you know this because you were attracted only to men at one point in your life and willed yourself to be straight instead? I love how people assume they know what it is like to be in another person’s shoes. So narrow minded.
Actually what has been found to be accurate is chemical imbalances on a higher level in same sex oriented people.
It still comes down to choice I fully agree with you on this. People love the idea of “choice” being removed because they think it will protect them in the next life. It will not… I pray for our people, all of Gods people! We are going to need it.
The word GAY IS SO WRONG,how can they be happy, queer is the right definition, gay is so misconstrued.
If it is a choice, I encourage you to be gay for a month. Go on multiple dates with guys. Hold hands. Maybe kiss one. Then get back to me.
A choice, really? And you know this how? Is it a choice to be born with both genitalia? Is it a choice to be molested as a child? Is it a choice to be born of a drug using mother? It goes on and on – if you’re not in it, you can’t understand it. This has been going on since the dawn of time. Some can’t choose a different path without misery!
Not so fast ScriptureisGods Word….In my effort to understand and have compassion for others I have watched shows and read things on same sex attraction. While it may be a choice in many or even most instances, it is not fair to say that its true in all instances. We all have both male and female hormones in our bodies and just like many other hormonal imbalances, our sex hormones are no different. Parents have attested to the fact that their daughter was making boy noises and pushing trucks around when they were 2 and others who’s young son wanted to play in mommy’s makeup and nurse his dolly. I have read of the agonizing experiences of youth after PE class who naturally felt like they should head off to the locker room with the opposite sex and felt awkward and embarrassed to be in the one with the same sex just because they had the same anatomy. Or a young prince of India who had an arranged marriage and would not consummate the marriage because it felt unnatural to be with someone of the opposite sex. There are thousands more stories and you or I cannot assume that we understand what its like to feel trapped in the wrong body. However, it does go contrary to all of nature and I would think that trying to achieve hormonal balance would be the logical and healthy answer. I believe it is true that we came to earth to overcome challenges with the Saviors help and to learn from our own experience. I believe that sexual behavior can be encouraged one way or the other and unfortunately, if that is left to society, it will be encouraged to do whatever you want. Within the gospel of Christ, one would be encouraged to overcome the “natural man, which is an enemy to God” through faith in Christ’s power to deliver us from our weaknesses. We cannot attempt to change Gods laws to accommodate our weakness. But in a Godless society, you can see why the natural man rules supreme. Thus the need to be an example of the believers and hold fast to the truth that we know and teach our children to do the same.
Holding your ground on “morals and ethics” is exactly what makes a person or an organization, or a nation, successful. Any company that gives up it’s morals are bound to either go corrupt, or fail. So, these people who are holding on to their beliefs and standing up despite constant “shaming” by judgmental people, are showing a lot of character for not bending to the will of the mob. Does this article say it is a choice? Does is say anyone chooses to be gay? No, I’m pretty sure it does not. It says not to act on it. If people can be celibate for their religion, and since certain religions do that for certain callings, then why are you so quick to shame us? Really, what is wrong about standing for a religious belief and holding on to it? Lastly, these words are not hateful. If you find them so, go read a dictionary, or go look up how hateful some people are towards the Christians that are not letting a country that has been degenerating over the past decades, change their beliefs. You’ll see multiple explanation points, many different insults (like “shame(ful)”, which you don’t see in articles like this), and various curse words. I’m sorry if you don’t see the double standard here, but you might want to look from a different perspective.
Isn’t everything in life a choice after you are born?
Life or the experience of life is simply a series of choices with an undefined outcome.
At least in my opinion…….
For you to call out the church or judge them for being shameful and hurtful is silly. Just dont associate with them vs giving yourself a reason to hate or have bad feelings toward them.
Holding us back as a society? Holding us back from where?
The statement straight up says people have homosexual attractions..it doesn’t assume it’s a choice… i don’t know where you got that from. Also, if you have a testimony and believe the true church of Christ and priesthood power was restored to the earth, why are you questioning God’s prophet?
Where did they “assume or hint that being gay is a choice?”
Of course its a choice .nobody is born gay
You are right, this kind of thinking is what’s holding us back, from destruction.
Read the Bible, how can you say the bible is wrong?
If God put you here as a man….you were meant to be a man. If God put you here as a woman you were meant to be a woman. It is by human choice as to whether you want to be gay. God does not make mistakes….period….end of discussion. Holding us back from hell is what they are doing. Facts are facts, scripture is scripture…truth is the truth. People don’t want to hear it because they know it is true but it interferes with their “fun”. This world is in complete turmoil and it will only get worse. I can’t wait for the day of the coming of the Lord…it is going to be great. Love the sinner……hate the sin.
prove its not a choice. ive known gays that became straight and admitted it was a choice.
Come on, no one is going go convince me that being gay is not a conscious choice. I’ve been offered just about every type of vice on this planet and although I haven’t always sakd, no, I have come to realize that participation is my choice, not someone else’s or hereditary. I chose my poisons alone and blame no one else.. Own it!
Did you know that before you came to earth that you were with Heavenly Father? Did you know he taught you his law before you left. Did you know that one of the things he showed you was the trials you would go through here? Maybe he gave you the option not to go to earth or to wait. Who know for sure. But maybe this is how the statement “born this way” got started. Someone knew they would be gay when they came to earth, they would have trials, but they knew if they withstood the temptations and the desires of the flesh then they could become a unique person who listened to God not man. Maybe they had just enough of the veil loosened that the glory of getting through the trial would be well worth it. And maybe the rest of us give in to the fleshly desires that corrupt. Drug addiction, fornication, food addiction, adultery, lying, hate, desires of the flesh abound, but they are not of God. God said marriage is between a man and a woman. However, a desire for the person to be able to have the person they love take care of them, be there for them when needed, etc is covered by a civil ceremony. Only people who demand that Christians forsake their beliefs are pushing for ALL men of God to perform marriages for LGBT and can’t accept that a civil marriage is legal. But, it does not put the beliefs of the Christian at risk as the demand of forcing preachers to perform a marriage. The laws that the few LGBT want are not in line with the majority of people. Yes, we want our children to be happy, mostly we want them to follow Gods law, but regardless we love them no matter what. We hurt that they are unhappy but I believe they accepted they would have this trial but thought they could rise above it and stay true to our Heavenly Fathers plan for happiness. Unfortunately people like you who spout hate against the very God who wants this push the good people to lose sight of what the goal is. I am surprised that we didn’t learn from history. Sodom was destroyed not because the people were gay as much as that they used sodomy against good people, they were pedophiles, and they worked for evil. They had forgotten the good because they were caught up in the bad. America is heading in that direction.
GREAT STORY
Quaint but irrelevant since the United States isn’t a theocracy.
Thanks Larry, but there’s a reason it was addressed to “brethren and sisters.” Neither quaint or irrelevant.
You have learned the word theocracy, good for you!
But Utah is.
The U.S. isn’t a theocracy, but the church is. They’re offering wisdom and guidance for their members, which is not irrelevant.
Dear NA, Hey I’m a 15 year old and a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I respect your opinion on the church but just so that you know, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not a theocracy. If it were then the church would be a form of government, it’s not. You see a theocracy is a form of government by a church or religious views. There are only a select few of theocratic governments (Such as Vatican City) but the LDS church is not one. Thank you for listening!
True. The United States is not a theocracy. However, that has nothing to do with the above statements by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. They are simply stating that the laws of the government of the land do not supplant the Lord’s right to require individuals to live by the moral code of the Gospel, nor does it change the standard of that moral code simply because it allows individuals to conduct themselves in a particular way. Simply put, while immoral acts may now be sanctioned by the government, it does not mean that they are suddenly allowed by the Church, and the Church will not be forced to change how it judges the conduct of those who participate in such acts.
When I was growing up in the church, I was always taught to “Obey the laws of the land”, which it also clarifies in the scriptures. It seems now that a law that disagrees with church teachings can be picked and chosen which will add an addendum to this rule “…unless you don’t agree with it”. So, what about people who don’t agree killing or raping or stealing someone’s property should be law, should they be able to pick and choose and contend “It is against my moral fiber to uphold those laws” and do whatever things they choose to do? Probably not. Law of the land means law of the land! Homosexuality is not against nature and God if nature and God chose a quite small percentage of the population to be born different than the rest of us. A human being born with both genitals is accepted because it’s something physical that is on the surface but some differences go below the surface but that doesn’t mean they are any less part of the physical world.
Nowhere does this position come into conflict with the law of the land. Indeed, the legal requirement isn’t about churches at all. It prohibits GOVERNMENT ENTITIES from denying people a marriage license. This isn’t the same as requiring CHURCHES to marry people. For a parallel example that’s been around some time, consider that governments have to issue license even when one of the applicants is a divorcee; but such a couple could not (in many cases) be married in the Catholic church.
Obeying the law of the land doesn’t mean it’s ok to do anything that’s not illegal. You were taught to obey the law but also abide by the commandments of God. You don’t get to pick and choose which ones. God has laws and man has laws, which do you think will bring you true happiness through obedience, not just on earth but eternally?
Members are not picking and choosing anything! We are not taking about not stopping at a red light here. These are eternal laws given to us by God himself, and nine guys choosing to vote on it cannot change God’s laws! Just suppose for a minute that there really is a God, and he gave us laws. Now a couple of men decide that we should have opposite laws. You tell me which laws I should follow – God’s or Man’s? The thing is that this life is not about this life – It’s about eternity. God gave us his commandments with that perspective in mind.
This statement in no way condones the breaking of any law. It simply states that the church will not perform gay marriages. That is not against the law.
You aren’t breaking the law by not agreeing with it. Just because you legally CAN smoke or drink doesn’t mean you HAVE to smoke or drink. The church isn’t breaking the law by disagreeing with it and they aren’t telling us to break the law by teaching us not to engage in homosexual behaviors. They are just clarifying that this change doesn’t change the church’s doctrine or policy.
It’s like when a state legalizes marijuana. Places of employment can still have company policies that dismiss those that come to work stoned. The company isn’t breaking the law or ignoring it. They just have a different standard than the state in the workplace.
What if reoprting your jewish neighbors to local police task forces in (insert your city) so that they could be placed into a work camp became a law in the United States, would you be inclined to follow that law also?
We’re not breaking any laws.
God’s law trumps man’s law. Always has. Always will.
I guess I missed the part where the church said it was going to break the law of the land…..
This is completely irrelevant. There is nothing in here that assumes the church is planning on going against the law. The law is that gays MAY marry, not that we MuST marry someone of the same sex or must perform a marriage. Everything in here is still abiding by the laws of the land, AND the higher law of God.
Alcohol, smoking and gambling are legal, by the law of the land, however we do not believe in it and don’t do it. Your argument has no ground. Just because it’s legal, doesnt mean the beliefs of the church have to change to suit it.
The following are legal in various parts of the United States: Smoking tobacco, using marijuana, drinking alcohol, prostitution, gambling, pornography, and shopping on Sunday. You were taught in Church not to engage in these activities either. Just because something is legal, doesn’t make it right or good for you.
This isn’t going against the law of the land Beerz, there is no law that forces the church or person to believe a certain way. You are a little bit confused here. The church and its members are in no way breaking a law so your claim is completely ridiculous.
In fact, they are FOLLOWING the law of the land, it’s called the 1st amendment.
So do you disagree with the word of wisdom as well? Most everything in there is legal according to the law of the land.
Beerz,
You’re comparing apples to oranges. If the law of the land were that you HAD to enter into a same-sex marriage, you would have a point. Since same-sex marriage isn’t compulsory, just permitted, your argument doesn’t hold water. The law isn’t forcing you to marry someone of the same sex, but you are allowed to, if you want.
Obeying the laws of the land means to follow compulsory laws, from the major things such as not killing, raping, stealing, to the lessor things like following the speed limit, etc.
I would imagine if, in China, for example, the government forces you to have an abortion because you already have one child and you’re allowed only one child, you would have to do it, regardless of your religious beliefs, and the Church would not discipline you for that given it’s the law of the land in which you live. God will just have to straighten that out on Judgment Day with leaders of the country.
God defines what is right and wrong and has given pretty clear definitions through scripture and revelation. The Bible defines marriage and man can continue to make laws that are out of line with Gods law. The first amendment protects freedom of religion. We have the right to believe what we believe and so does the LGBT community. All we ask as Christians…don’t infringe upon our rights as you seek to redefine marriage in our country. The LDS church teaches our members to stand up for their belief while treating the LGBT community with kindness. I’m not understanding how this violates the U.S. constitution as you are implying?
Beerz, you should brush up on what the scriptures actually say: Articles of Faith 12 says to obey, honor, and sustain the law, yes, but it isn’t law that we have to perform marriages for homosexuals; it’s now a law that they can be legally married, and if another church wants to do that, that’s fine. D&C 134 lays it all out clearly that “religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do NOT believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but NEVER CONTROL CONSCIENCE.” So if it ever comes down to the government saying that our church has to perform gay marriages, then they are interfering with our forms of worship and devotion, which would attempt to control our conscience. That is where the government is heading, and that is a scary thought.
Dear Beerz,
What if the law of the land prohibited people from reading scriptures or praying? Like in the Old Testament with Daniel who got thrown into the lions’ den. Also, the law of the land is NOT that we can’t be opposed to gay marriage. The law of the land simply legalizes it. This is similar to why it is alright for the church to continue to be opposed to smoking, alcohol, and all other things that are legal and against the law of God.
Furthermore, if the laws that have already been established by the church are contradicted by new laws passed by the government, this infringes on our freedom to worship.* In the case that this does ever happen, great wisdom will be needed in determining an appropriate course of action.
Also, part of your argument is based on the slippery slope fallacy such that that part of the argument is invalid (in other words not necessarily true and not necessarily false; just invalid).
Finally, I will speak concerning your argument about homosexuality not being against nature and God. Some people are born with a stronger tendency towards addiction (to drugs, alcohol, pornography, etc). Does this mean that this tendency is not against God? No. It is simply something that people born with those tendencies have to deal with in this life. I know that in today’s society, being addicted to something cannot be compared to being homosexual, but this is justified if we use the logic you have presented in your comment.
Please understand that I fully respect your right to speak your opinion and believe what you will. I also welcome a response to my comment. If you do respond, I would appreciate it if it used logic and reason to come to a conclusion rather than strong emotions and insults (though I am not implying that such would be the nature of your response). Thank you for your efforts in trying to make the world a better place.
*Note: I am not saying that the recent ruling is infringing on the freedom to worship. There are other reasons that I oppose the ruling.
Is it the law of the land to participate in homosexual behavior; particularly gay marriage?
I think you are trying to argue that in some way the Mormons are trying to not live by the law of the land. This can’t be farther from the truth. If you could please reference in the law or constitution where it requires a religious organization to perform marriages for anyone that asks for it, that would be helpful in understanding your arguement. The cakes and florists are bound by the commerce clause however the Mormon faith leaders do not charge for there services so the commerce clause does not pertain. Please help me understand how you feel that because a law makes something legal that everyone under the law needs to participate and go out of their way to actively engage in activities that are outside of the ordinary behaviors of the individual or organization.
Its not picked and chosen. There are two sets of rules, the laws of earth and the laws of heaven. IF you believe in the laws of heaven then you believe that you should not practice homosexuality. Because that is a law of heaven, written down by moses thousands of years ago, before the United States of America even existed. The laws of the land are there to protect us citizens against such people as you mentioned that kill and rape and steal. Which the people in general accept as against moral standards. The church is not telling us to break the laws of the land. The church is telling us that we should not support or practice exceptions to the law. Which is exactly what the laws on Gay marriage are, Exceptions to the general practice of marriage.
And homosexuality is against nature. Sorry to burst your bubble. But human nature makes us like and seek after the opposite sex, because only with the opposite sex can we have children. For those that seek the same sex, it is almost always a choice, a choice that came because of many possible reasons. Maybe because of background or status or finding similarities in personality that make living with the same sex fun. But there is a small percentage of the people that are born with birth defects and to those people the chemicals in their brains are out of balance and so they are attracted to the same sex. To those people that have very little choice in the matter, there is more forgiveness from God. But to those individuals who choose to be Gay, knowing Gods standards, these are they which will be judged with more condemnation at the last day.
Beerz, how is the church or members breaking the law by not accepting gay marriage? The church also does not agree with using drugs like weed. Weed is legal many places and people are still pushing to make it legal everywhere. The church doesn’t agree with using alcohol also a legal substance. Porn another thing that is legal. In some countries honor killing is legal yet the church doesn’t agree with that either. Just because something is legal doesn’t mean it is right and that we have to agree with it. People are finding legal ways to do stupid things all the time.
The church is ramining transparent on its stance, which hasn’t changed and never will. Your complaint is so bass akwards and contradictory. Freedom of religion…its been around a lot longer than gay marriage.
So sick of hate coming from the gay community, a community that is supposedly all about love. Love goes both ways, so try excercising an ounce toleration for those who’s views differ from your own.
sorry Beerz but for being born with one genitals and going opposite to your physical orientation is not natural but being born hermaphrodite can be justifiable because you have to choose between the 2 based on the feeling that is dominant to that individual. And its the teachings of the church, members can agree or disagree and we believe that we are free to choose to follow or not but the consequences we cannot choose.
There is a difference between Moral Law, and Civil Law. The Supreme Court should not try to legislate morality and decency. It is not enforcible. Homosexuality is simply another word for genocide. Marriage between a man and a woman has been the rule from God since Adam and Eve. A mom and dad have definite roles in the balanced life of a child. A Society that throws the doors wide open, says “anything goes” does not have personal ethics, and self restraint, will soon find itself spiraling down out of control. The Constitution supports Religious Freedom. The LDS Church has been consistent with this issue. If your don’t agree, find a church that changes with the tide of society,so you’ll feel comfortable. God’s rules are not susceptible to earthly tribunals like the Supreme Court.
I think I am a cat, and act like a cat, and possibly do surgery to become a cat, then I am a cat. I’m not human , I’m a cat! I am asking for everyone’s support because I was born wrong, and I need to rectify it….if I do that today, I may be send to a psychiatric ward! But 50 years from now, the constitution will be amended, and I’ll be happily become a cat! Can’t wait! -an example of how the laws of the land are changeable and fallible!
Actually, homosexuality is against nature, as no other animal in the world routinely has a sexual relationship with another of its kind for its entire life. And, if you look closer, God’s laws always outrank mans laws. No matter what. Note that God’s laws mostly coincide with the law of the land. But homosexuality is forbidden in the bible, which is a book that every Christian accepts, and so therefore this gives every human being the right to ignore this particular law of the land.
My dear beerz, when you were young you were also taught that in this country, freedom of religion is a constitutional right. ( perhaps you have forgotten hat lesson. 5 Supreme Court justices have.). Why in the world would you attack a religion for reaffirming its beliefs in the face of illegal political action which threatens their ability to practice their constitutionally guaranteed freedom of said religion?
Your comparison to someone using Their moral fiber to rationalize rape or other crimes actually is the strongest argument for maintaining the traditional marriage as it has always been. Once you start allowing something just because people say it feels good or they were born that way, how can you tell anyone not to do anything they feel like doing?
But that is a separate issue. You can believe what you will about god and his intentions for mankind. But this church has doctrines, which incidentally are firmly based in scripture used by all judeo-Christianity, and you can not dictate to them what to believe or teach. Their statement shows peace and love, not the hate reflected in your own comments. You have no logical platform for any of your arguments, and a weak emotional one at best.
Oh, and nothing in the law of the land (which was illegally made, which was admitted to by the judges in their ruling,) says the church is required to perform or condone gay marriage. It only says that states cannot outlaw it. So be aware that you are wanting to change the doctrine of a religion. That sounds pretty much like a violation of the first two amendments to the constitution.
Church leaders are very aware that same sex attraction is real. It’s been documented many times in interviews, and other media published by the LDS church.
Also, they are not disobeying the law in any way. There is not a law requiring churches to marry people not of their faith, etc.
Oh now you chose to follow the law of the land because you are really into sodomy. And, yet you still drive 5 over the speed limit, make rolling stops at stop signs and pay all your taxes. Law of the land used to be that slavery and Jim Crow were legal and sodomy was illegal. And, you supported them because you always obey the law of the land.
Dude, you don’t understand. The law allows it, but that doesn’t mean the law requires it. There is a big difference. We don’t have to all go do it just because it’s no longer illegal. For example, adultery is perfectly legal but does that mean the church can’t say adultery is wrong? Why haven’t you been speaking out for decades saying that the church doesn’t “obey the laws of the land” because it maintains that adultery is wrong?
if you read everything, it specifically says that people who struggle with same gender attraction, but who continue to live the law of chastity, as we are all commanded to do, can continue on in good standing, including holding a temple recommend. This is perfect equality, because the exact same rules apply to every single member, no matter who they’re attracted to.
As far as obeying the laws of the land, how exactly does the Church’s statement break any laws? Did the SCOTUS also abolish the First Amendment while we were sleeping? Speaking out against a court ruling, and disagreeing with laws is not the same as breaking them. As long as the First Amendment remains intact, we will avail ourselves of that Constitutionally protected right to worship according to the dictates of our own conscience. This ruling says that the government has to recognize SSM. It does not say churches have to condone it, or perform them (yet).
Theirs no law that you have to be gay lol. Their not picking and choosing what to obey. Just because drinking is legal doesn’t mean lds people have to drink lol. Dont be ridiculous. Your just trying to find a reason to hate on them. The church hasn’t changed their opinion on gays, if you actually grew up in the church you’d know that. Just because its legal to drink doesn’t mean lds people have to drink :p
Beerz,
Nothing in the letter states anything about disobeying the law of the land. (What I find truly disturbing is the fact that judges can make laws…that was never a law) The new ruling states that in the US same sex marriages are allowed. It does not state every religion must comply. It states that it is legal for the contracts to be made. It does not state by whom this contract must be performed.
In the US we have freedom of religion…that means each religion gets to teach their beliefs as they see fit.
Nothing illegal about saying that we accept the teaching that sex outside of marriage is wrong and that marriage is ordained of God between a man and a woman. That is a very mainstream and long standing system of belief.
The letter is very clearly written and easy to understand. I think they did good.
Rick, this letter says nothing about choices. I think you are making assumptions of your own. It is my understanding that the church has never made official statements about Homosexuals choosing to be what they are. They HAVE repeatedly made statements about choosing to ACT on those impulses. None of us are to act on impulses to self gratify except within the bonds of marriage between a male husband and a female wife.
The rules have always been clear, if one rejects those rules that is their business, but an organization does not have to change to meet the demands of it’s followers. In fact if they reject the teachings then obviously they are NOT followers…so let it go.
We believe in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. This does not me we have to perform ceremonies in our particular churches. But we do respect those civil bonds as valid in the eyes of the law.
In response to Beerz, I think that the phrase “unless you don’t agree with it” is the incorrect way to think about it. I’ve been taught that when two laws conflict, it’s a matter of choosing between a higher law and a lower law. God’s laws (not in favor of homosexuality, read the bible) are the former, and trump the law of the land.
I admit I don’t have any quotes or anything to back up that what I said is indeed the Church’s stance on the matter, but I believe it is, and if I had more time I know I could be more reasonable.
Ultimately what seems logical to me is that when the Lord gives a commandment to his children like the one to obey the laws of the land, he would expect them to assume that that only applies to the ones that don’t conflict with his other laws. Feels like common sense to me.
Beerz,
The law of the land allows people to drink alcohol and smoke, but as Church Members we do not commit these sins just because it is allowed. If someone is born with attraction to children, should we allow them to act on thier urges when they become adults? I agree with the LDS Church and its stance on same sex marriage. The Churches stance should be respected by law abiding citizens.
What you are saying doesn’t make since. Just because the church says obey the law of the land doesn’t mean go get drunk, stoned, or view pornography. These are all legal but I’m sure you don’t think you are allowed to participate in them or anything else just because it is legal. No I’m sure you understand that you have to use better judgement. Pull your head out man.
Just because the law says you can do something doesn’t mean that you have to do it. The law says you can drink alcohol but doesn’t mean you have to drink. The law Says that you can have sex before marriage but doesn’t mean that it’s ok in the eyes of God. Know what else the law says? That you have the right to worship anyway you like.
Your premissa is flaw. The law of the land allows drinking and smoking, we always have been against it. So you think that because the law allows we have to submit to it and shut up? The law of the land allows adultery we preach against it as well. I believe you don’t understand English as well as you should. The church is against homosexual behaviour not homosexuals. Homosexual behavior is having sex outside a marriage approved by God, which is a sin, unless you also think that God was just kidding when he said that, “a man shall not lay down with another man” (Leviticus). He was just kidding when He said, “thou shall not commit adultery” (Exodus). But why am I wasting my time preaching to a person that uses a flaw agument like yours?
I’m pretty sure nature dictates that only a man and a woman can bear a child. Just saying.
Beerz,
Read the Supreme Court decision then maybe amend your comment. The Supreme Court specifically carved out an exception for religious institutions. So actually the church is obeying the law of the land! Also, the 1st amendment of the constitution (that document that allows you to make silly comments on message boards) is the supreme law of the land. It affords the religious freedoms that you and I both enjoy. Also, how do you know that homosexuality is not agains the nature of God? What religious evidence do you have? Just read the church’s statement and you will find plenty of religious evidence. Therefore, I find your argument completely baseless. I respect your belief and you are entitled to it, but maybe do some research and at least have some evidence to support your claims.
Choosing not to be married to someone of the same sex does not mean one is not upholding the law of the land. Church members were not advised to break up and interfere with homosexual marriages when they see them…
The law of the land has a lot of things which are legal but are not participated in church meetings or on church property. According to your statement, are you implying that we should open a bar in temple square and serve alcohol to visitors simply because it is legal? Respecting people’s rights and participating in their choices are two different things entirely. This letter clearly directs church members and leaders to accept the law and to not mistreat or disrespect those who are living according to it. Meanwhile, we must maintain our beliefs as well. It amazes me how blurry some people’s vision can become on keeping church and state separate when it comes to the government dictating religious freedoms, but to express our religious belief is somehow considered a violation of that same principle. If you want equality and freedom, it has to be given both ways.
Your conclusions about the laws of the land and the Laws of God are incorrect. This is really no different from the current laws regarding abortion, or drinking, smoking, or extra marital sex, etc. All of which are ‘legal’ under the ‘laws of the land’ for certain age groups, but are NOT for practicing members of the LDS faith.
This is not a new issue… there are countries where there are latter day saints, but the law of the land is contrary to the laws of God.
Your argument doesn’t work in this situation. The ‘Law of the Land’ does not require you to marry a homosexual, nor does it require you to approve of a homosexual marriage. The above statement from the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles simply states that because the Government of the land has agreed to allow a practice, this does not mean that it is suddenly permissible by God. Surely you don’t think that the Church has abandoned their requirements with respect to the Word of Wisdom simply because the law of the land says that it’s OK for certain people to consume alcohol or smoke cigarettes.
In any case, this is not a law of the land. The SCOTUS simply stated that their interpretation of the Constitution is that state governments cannot create laws that infringe upon a persons right to marry a person of the same sex. The ruling is for the purpose of providing a blanket statement with regards to the numerous court cases that have been presented to the Supreme Court regarding same sex marriage and the refusal of certain government entities to recognize or allow such a union to be created.
I totally agree with you. “Law of the land” is not simply a “trend in society”. Proves they make up whatever “doctrines” they want to, and they have to save face by sticking to their original ideals no matter what, otherwise that would be known as bullshit too. Good luck to them I guess, they are losing more and more members every day. I wonder why!
The LDS church is the fastest growing religion in the world.
Um……losing more members every day? That’s why at EVERY LDS General Conference the membership grows. Oh, oops, you may want to do your research before you let your emotions get carried away.
The one who loses, going against God’s commandments, is the person not the Church. It’s not a matter of numbers here but of souls.
No need to wonder…members fall away because they allow themselves to be tossed to and fro and driven by the wind…i.e.: whatever is popular for the day. They haven’t recieved for themselves, a knowledge or testimony of God’s revealed truth to man. Or they have permitted themselves to be blinded and led astray by the foolishness of men. Stop and think…can you create man?..or water…rocks…flowers..trees..animals?…No! There is a creator of the universe and all that exists and the puny mind of man thinks they can debate the truth of what eternally exists and thinks to change it. Oh ye fools. The only one laughing at your folly is Lucifer,the author of lies, deception,and confusion, who seeks to destroy our souls and drag us down to endless misery and woe. While the Heavens weep for mans hard heartedness and unwillingness to turn to Christ who is our Savior and Redeemer and who is mighty to save…. To save us from our foolishness and blind ambitions and sins. No amount of debate will ever change the eternal truth. The only hope is to turn our hearts to God and then you will understand what it is to truly live. Blessings!
You are correct in that we are to “Obey the Laws of the Land.” And that will stand. But it is NOT a law to marry the same sex. The Law allows it if you wish to do so. BIG difference. Just as the Law allows drinking alcohol and smoking at a certain age….if you wish to do so. Does not mean you have to. The Churchs STANDARDS are to uphold the Laws of the Land, but where there is a choice, to align your decisions with the doctrine of God.
If we are born with six fingers, or both genitals, or no leg then so be it. Nothing we can do about that. But we will ALWAYS have control over the actions we choose no matter what our habits or addictions or emotional feelings might be.
This can go on for ages. But bottom line is that God commandments are just that. Weither we agree with them or not. That’s why this life is a test. Like Sally said. Satan will find ways for us to question Gods Laws or justify breaking them. Because society now decide things are ok. Doesn’t mean God does.
So explain to me why the church holds majority stock in budwieser and coke?
Beerz – One example in the Church of disagreeing with the laws of the land is on the consumption of alcohol. Though this is legal, the Church has always been opposed to it. The Church believes in obeying the laws of the land as long as they coincide with the laws of God. Just because man accepts something does not mean that it is acceptable to God.
its not saying to not obey the law of the land.. wtf are you talking about. typical liberal bully.
Not so. The church has always stated we follow Gods laws. However, as in storing food, that is not a law, that is a directive. Many countries do not allow you to store food so the members in those countries are advised to not store and to depend on God Marriage is a law of God. Of course we protest, but they do say that a civil union is acceptable. That allows the couple involved to have the legal protections that marriage does, without being a marriage.
I agree even if we don’t agree with the laws that changed the issue on gay marriage we still accept theM into our chapel as long as they respect the house of the lord..
Sori, are you a sexually addicted religiophobe? Do not use the pretense of reason to camouflage your intolerance and hatred for Christians and other religious people. Your anger and hatred are punishment enough for this life.
I just love the way the church has come out and reaffirmed the laws of God.and whether those who disagree or not have there view the laws of God will never be changed its the laws of man that are constantly changing and are being influenced by the workings of Satan and his followers thank you heavenly father for keeping these laws in place despite what the world thinks
“Survival of the fittest” is a phrase that originated from an evolutionary theory as a way of describing the mechanism of natural selection. The biological concept of fitness is defined as reproductive success. In Darwinian terms the phrase is best understood as “Survival of the form that will leave the most copies of itself in successive generations.” I feel sadness for many same sex couples who will never “successfully copy themselves” in the form of their own children…children of their own blood. I’m sure science will continue to work on ways to allow them to reproduce; but, watching a child born by a woman you truly love is beyond words.
I am grateful for the statement put out by the first presidency. I believe marriage between man and woman is the only foundation for family. I appreciate the emphasis that even though we may have different opinions, we are to respect and love one another. The first presidency of the church is far from hateful towards those of different beliefs. The entire basis of the LDS church is love and family.
It seems as though when someone opposes something as sacred as the church’s statement on Gay marriage they have to flower their words with inappropriate remarks.
Yes, I am a member! Yes, I support the First Presidency on this matter. If you cannot intelligently express your negative opinion don’t.
Thankful for this statement and for a living prophet who speaks God’s words despite what others in the world may think. Keeping God’s commandments brings blessings!
Im so happy the Church has spoken for me. I couldn’t think of a way to put my beliefs and thoughts in words without offending my friends and some family members who are indeed in same sex relationships. I stated that if the world were to be destroyed and left two people of the same sex…factually it would be impossible to REPRODUCE to save the human race. I thank our President for his clarification and publishing The Laws of God not the acceptance of our Society. The Holy Ghost and Jesus and God are as real as these words Im submitting.
Well said. What a great article. Respect is key in both directions.
The law about marriage in the US was: one man and one woman. That is of course unless the Mormon church wants multiple marriages. It seems that this kind of preaching is tailored to whatever suits the needs of the church. I find it difficult to listen to their proclamations and preaching. Homosexuality is not a choice and it’s not hurting anyone. The same cannot be said about the church’s former practice of polygamy, which was illegal in the first place, and immoral based on simple human empathy in the second place. 14 year old girls would never choose to be the fourth or fifth wife of a fat bearded 50 year old… But that happened. It’s hard for me to watch the preaching from the perspective I have.
I’m replying to Rick’s response. I feel sorry you feel that way. If you believe it is hogwash, I challenge you to take it to the Lord Jesus Christ, pray, study and ask for the Lord to tell you the truth. “By the power of the Holy Ghost, ye may know the truth of all things.”(Moroni 10:5) All sincere prayers are answered. This is why Jesus gave us the gift of the atonement so we can find answers to our struggles. If you choose not to take the challenge, then I would ask that you don’t go on saying that The First Presidency of the church are being hateful and hurtful.
Keep in mind this is coming from an institution that previously (prior to 1978) prevented certain races from attaining an equal status as their white peers and had officially declared them (on multiple occasion) as lesser individuals, both here and in the fictional “hereafter”. But it was done is a nice and loving way~. The recent claim is that it was policy, however, anyone can easily find plenty of references where it was declared doctrine.
These three people, yes just people, as well as the quorum of the twelve and the seventy have little to no perspective on what life is like outside they’re echo chamber. Oh, and it’s painfully obvious that Pres. Monson has dementia and possibly early signs of alzheimer’s.
Regards, from a middle-aged, straight, white guy that was LDS for 21 years.
@Sori
There’s a difference between hatred and simply upholding a conflicting viewpoint. If you disagree, you’re free to disagree. But trying to dredge up hate where there is none is a childish response to a differing opinion.
@Beerz
Allowing the law to dictate your moral compass is a backwards way to participate in democracy. There’s no law that forces people of opposing genders to be married or that forbids an opposing opinion; therefore, choosing not to participate or support homosexual behaviors is not a violation of the law of the land. It’s simply exercising a constitutional right.
Thanks for the entertaining commentary though.
Oh give it a few years and the church will suddenly have a “revelation” and suddenly gays will be accepted. Isn’t that what happened with blacks? The church will eventually catch up to society and go with the popular opinion. The geezers in charge need to die off first and let a new generation take over before that will happen though. Can’t happen soon enough!
Being a member of the church is also a choice, if you don’t like the policy of the church there are a lot of churches that Except homosexuality go to them, that’s the cool thing about being an American freedom of religion.
I will live my life to best of my ability and will never discriminate anyone for any reason.
I fully support and stand behind the church and it’s leaders.
The church is a beacon of light and hope and truth and will be attacked for that very reason in these last days.
These are indeed dark days when what was good is now bad and bad is good. Violence and misinformation crowd the airwaves. Law enforcement is no longer seen as the protector but the enemy and our government is an unorganized mess.
Turn to the Lord not social media and your heart will be lightened and load lifted.
The Church is not advocating that we break the law. Rather, it is advocating that insofar as the law makes a moral claim – that heterosexual and homosexual relations are equivalent and interchangeable – that claim is not correct or in harmony with God’s law. The law does not usually compel us to personally celebrate such unions – though unfortunately such cases are on the rise – and the Church advises that it will not celebrate them. That is not a violation of the law.
Doctrine and Covenants section 134 goes into more detail about how we view the law. It can regulate behavior, but must never try to control conscience. Our right to disagree, individually and collectively, is vital to democracy and diversity.
Breaking news! What new information! Filled with shocks and surprises!
“For much of human history, civil laws have generally been compatible with God’s laws. Unfortunately, there have been notable exceptions to that pattern.”
…Just like when blacks weren’t allowed to hold priesthood or enter the temple.
don’t believe in gay marriage, it’s evil and disgusting.
“For much of human history, civil laws have generally been compatible with God’s laws. Unfortunately, there have been notable exceptions to that pattern.”
…Like not allowing blacks to hold priesthood or enter the temple until the 1970’s?
I don’t need God to tell me Homosexuality is wrong – Nature has spoken up loud and clear on the matter. Sperm + Poop = nothing. Egg + Egg = nothing. End of story. Admit what it is and stop pretending or us Alpha Males will start having a bigger problem with it and do what is in our nature.
There is nothing in here that says Gay’s cannot get married under the “Laws of the Land”. Nor does it say anything about oppressing or preventing them from following their own beliefs. But for those that have chosen to follow the Doctrine of Christ as reveled to the Prophets of the Church, the First Presidency has very clearly stated the doctrine. If you don’t believe them that’s your choice. If you wish to follow Christ in his church then you need to search out HIS doctrine not the doctrine of man. We are not breaking laws, we are exercising our right to freedom of religion. This is a message of peace and understanding. Read it with hope ion your heart rather then bitterness and you will see the love these men have for everyone.
We are guaranteed freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. We demand the same rights the Gay community demand. We demand to be left alone to worship God as we see fit. We will practice our religion according to Gods Law. They can practice their form of religion as they see fit and we will leave them alone to do as they see fit. Tolerance is a two way transaction. The Main Stream Media has been attacking Christianity for as long as I can remember and I’m 68. With the election of President Obama the Media announced that they were leftists and would no longer pretend to be fair or balanced. The attacks are now threatening the constitution and with it our freedom .
We are told to obey the law of the land but this is not disobeying the law of the land. We believe engaging in homosexual acts is against gods law. The law of the land allows gay marriage but us condemning it is not breaking any laws. If there is a law that says we are allowed to kill we would still be condemned by god for doing so.
Being gay is an addiction just like any other addiction, only sexual in nature. To say that people have no choice in being gay is the same as saying an alcoholic has no choice but to remain forever addicted to his vice. Just because something has become second nature to us, doesn’t make it ok in the eyes of God. In fact, the whole purpose of God’s plan of salvation, is for us to overcome our fallen nature and be made righteous again through Christ.
Very well written, loving and kind. Not many are finding it possible to stand firmly by their convictions while still exemplifying charity and open arms. Thanks to LDS church leaders for setting an example amidst the chaos. Millions of us agree and support you.
Very well written, loving and kind. Not many are finding it possible to stand firmly by their convictions while still exemplifying charity and open arms. Thanks to LDS church leaders for setting an example amidst the chaos. Millions of us agree and support you
I am grateful for the freedom this country grants us, including freedom of religion. As you know these freedoms are not free, they come as a result of brave and concerned individuals who fight for and defend their beliefs and what they know in their souls to be eternal truths. The church has to defend what we consider an ordinance instituted by God. An institution which, when two people of the opposite sex invest their whole, will bring about God’s eternal blessings of joy promises. Please understand and respect that the church cannot contradict God’s laws. I love my friends and family who have a different opinion, but that does not dissuade me from believing differently.
I don’t know many of you and what your reasons are but I stand and will continue to stand by what the First Presidency of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have said. This is God’s law and we as a people should not change God’s law. If you want an example of people changing God’s law and not follow God’s commandment please then read the bible. There are many examples of the people not obeying and for that they were cut off from God’s covenant and God could not dwell with them because they disobeyed. If you really want a good example of this look up What happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.
God is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow and his Laws and Commandments will never change. We will change, as so we have seen, but God will never change.
I am so grateful for divinely inspired leaders who recognize the importance of remaining firm on these matters. This is a great reminder of why we are here and what we need to be doing.
You are absolutely right, obey the laws of the land. God’s laws are stricter than man’s laws, therefore if we keep God’s laws we aren’t breaking man’s laws. Now, if the law was that we had to be gay, then there would be an issue, but I don’t think it ever will, and if it was, God would find a way to combat such a ridiculous law, like bringing the lawmakers to a knowledge of the truth, ie. Daniel and the Lion’s den, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. It’s not something Christians ever need to worry about, and the primary reason the first presidency is publishing this message at all is because they genuinely care about the welfare of the souls of their fellowmen. If your child is was about to stick a fork into a live wall socket would you not yell out “stop!”?? God is our father, the prophet is his mouthpiece, and this is what he’s saying to us right now.
I raise my hand to a square and support the words of the prophets.
What is their stand on priests that molest children?
Quit the line about intolerant and hateful. Go to the king James version of the Bible and find one assertion that states that God follows the civic leaders on earth. I can find plenty of references in that book that says he is unchangeable and also say that homo sexuality is a sin. No feelings need to be hurt, no claims of hate need to be raised, the scriptures are clear on this. I wonder why coffee and beer drinkers haven’t for years claimed that Mormons are hateful?
“Changes in the civil law do not, indeed cannot, change the moral law that God has established.” If that’s the case, can someone please explain me what happen with the polygamy issue?
“It seems now that a law that disagrees with church teachings can be picked and chosen”
Remember when it was the law that Daniel had to worship a statue of the king? C’mon son.
Homosexuality is immoral.
This statement is exactly how I have felt…they do have those rights and should without marriage. Governments should have given them the rights long ago without marriage coming into the picture. i do not hate or even dislike others. God is the ultimate judge and the only one who can understand any of this.
It would be nice if people would actually read before making uninformed, uneducated and inaccurate comments.
1. There is nothing in this messages that displays or advocates hate or intolerance.
2. There aren’t any claims in this document made about whether or not homosexuality is a choice. Homosexual behavior is a choice–there is no way to argue against that. Everyone gets to choose what they say and what they do in any situation. The document clearly states that there would be no discrimination due to the person’s nature, only on their behavior.
3. There is nothing in this document that advocates disobeying the “laws of the land.” If it was legal to kill someone, churches aren’t required to advocate murder. If rape was legal, you wouldn’t hear these men saying, “well, I guess we should stop telling people to not rape each other.” Just because the government says that homosexual behavior and homosexual marriage is legal does not mean that a church has to suddenly change their stance or start participating in it. There is no law that says everyone must approve of this behavior or participate in these weddings.
And finally Larry–this document has nothing to do with the governing of the United States, so your comment is completely irrelevant. Churches have the freedom to govern themselves within the law as they see fit.
You’re right in saying God’s moral law cannot be changed. It is also true that the true Gospel cannot be changed. You may succeed in convincing others that there is a different gospel, in the same way some would convince others that God’s law can be changed, but that will never change the truth.
It sounds like you are spewing hate and intolerance. Open your heart and your brain and keep your judgement to yourself if u can’t find a nicer way to make your comments. It is a great lie that gays and homosexuals are born that way. Are alcoholics born that way? They might have a gene that they might become alcoholics if they drink, but if they don’t drink will they be an alcoholic? It is an addiction to which many have recovred from.
Thank you First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve for standing strong against the adversary in a very difficult time. We are so proud of you and you have our total support. We pray for you daily. May God keep you strong as you lead the members of this great church. We pray that we will be good followers and always keep the commandments.
This is God’s desire. We love, all of us love one another. The only issue is that we have great potential that is within us and homosexual actions hold us back. Pornography keeps us away from reality. Just believe in and become your potential. Where you’d like to be in five years, ten years, etc. and work for it.
All this is doing is distracting us from loving and finding happiness. So get off it and go meet your neighbor and tend to their needs by talking with them. Life is about love so leave this topic for a while, just a second, and go do good in the world. SERVE, people. That’s what Jesus would do, personally.
Mormon friends out there PLEASE READ and understand why YOUR FAITH IS SO OFFENSIVE TO US:
On July 2, 1964, The Civil Rights Act officially ended segregation and discrimination based on the color of our skin. The following spring, in General Conference, Ezra Taft Benson warned members about the dangers of going along with the “dangerous” civil rights movement:
“The Lord never promised there would not be traitors in the Church. We have the ignorant, the sleepy and the deceived who provide temptations and avenues of apostasy for the unwary and the unfaithful, but we have a prophet at our head and he has spoken.”
Benson’s warning against civil rights was a continuation of racist beliefs written decades earlier by the First Presidency, under George Albert Smith, who said that if a Mormon hoped for racial equality he had “lost sight of the revelations of the Lord.”
Before that, Joseph Fielding Smith taught that black people were “an inferior race” and that their curse would continue “while time endures” — a belief perhaps initiated by Brigham Young, who taught that God’s penalty for interracial relationships was “death on the spot. This will always be so.”
When our culture began to recognize the nonsense of racism, N. Eldon Tanner assured Church members “that no matter how convincing an argument might seem to be,” our prophets and apostles were “powerless to change God’s unchanging laws when it comes to the color of our skin.”
Thankfully, God’s laws may be unchanging, but our understanding of them is not. The Church recently approved an essay in which they “unequivocally condemn all racism, past and present, in any form.”
Our prophets and apostles were simply wrong about God’s relationship with black people and the moral implications of marriage between races.
In the wake of this month’s landmark Supreme Court ruling, you have been asked by the First Presidency to read a statement reaffirming the Church’s position on gay marriage. Your current leaders seem inclined to repeat the pattern established during the civil rights movement and assure us they are “powerless to change God’s unchanging laws.”
I disagree with what these dudes say on many things. I think it is not for laws of another dimension, if any (and ironically, rewritten by men many times over, with many contradictions), to dictate what civil societies do with their lives since it should pertain only to laws of actual, living men.
The standards of conduct that they are trying to push on society should stay theirs alone, and limited to their places of worship. When I read things like these I wonder how the authors can claim they treat people with kindness and then insist on converting everyone around. Trying to impose their beliefs on a whole country to ignore men’s laws over god’s is not “the free exercise of our religion” as stated. Free exercise is not free spreading of it and mass conversion. The respect they talk about goes both ways. When groups that share these kind of beliefs gather in the intersections to shout at gay people that they will go to hell (and sometimes mexicans, african-americans and other groups), where is respect?
Also, the mere notion of “tolerance” that they use is contradictory to love, which is supposed to be the greatest teaching of the historical figure of Jesus Christ.
“I tolerate you” means “I hardly manage to bear with you, but I cope because I have to”; whereas “acceptance” is a very different term, devoid of fear and hate. “I accept you” means “I may not agree with you, but I acknowledge that we will always have more in common than not, just for being human, and just because of that fact I have no quarrel with you”… I have only seen this train of thought in several of the asian religions.
So to these three gentlemen I would say, ‘live and let live’ and that lovely line that goes: “Religion is like a penis. It’s fine to have one and it’s fine to be proud of it, but please don’t whip it out in public and start waving it around… and PLEASE don’t try to shove it down my child’s throat.”
I support the first presidency with all my heart. Thank you.
and they all said “Amen”
The only thing that bothers me is that it seems that they are saying it is not right to support homosexual marriage. I think that’s part of the rights they have. Everyone deserves to have the right to marry who they love. I think that ‘condoning’ the behavior would mean that I encourage everyone to get married homosexually and don’t support marriage between a man and a woman, which I don’t. I simply believe that all people, homosexual or heterosexual, black or white, male or female, deserve to have the same rights. That includes the right to marry. Besides, when the church says that they believe only in marriage between a man and a woman, it is simply not true. Polygamy can be ordained of God according to the church when it is within the correct circumstances. I think there are bigots on both sides of this issue. Either it be the ultra-liberal or ultra-conservative, there is always a line to be drawn. Just because someone supports traditional marriage does not mean they hate gays. And just because someone supports homosexual marriage does not mean they are against religion.
“Homosexuality is not against nature and God if nature and God chose a quite small percentage of the population to be born different than the rest of us.”
Actually, homosexuality IS COMPLETELY AGAINST NATURE AND GOD. Let’s take God out of the equation for this argument however, and just focus on Nature. It would be natural selection for homosexuals to become extinct within ONE generation – a female/female or male/male sexual act attempting conception would fail EVERY TIME.
Its only society (laws passed), science (babies conceived by either insemination or in a petrie dish) and lack of moral integrity (homosexual male or female having sex outside the partnership to conceive – forced sexual act going against their own sexual urges) that have made it possible in current culture for homosexuals to reproduce.
Nature doesn’t care what someone’s sexual urges or preferences are. The LAWS of nature will never allow for homosexuality to propagate and flourish. That’s man’s concoction.
For all those who oppose this statement by the church you have every right to do so, that’s free agency. But if you resort to name calling and childish tantrums it just shows how unsure you are in your own opinion. It is hypocritical to namecall or hate on those who oppose your views because guess what? Your views oppose ours, and we remain courteous to you people.
I’m sorry but the church leadership didn’t blink an eye when gay marriage was legalized in Canada 10 YEARS AGO! Now as Canadians we are going to have to listen to this letter in church…a little late if they are so concerned. Times like this remind me that we are still struggling to be a worldwide church and they remind me why the church needs to stay out of politics. I understand why temple marriage is between a man and a woman and I understand and support the statement that the church will not permit same-sex marriages in the church or temple, but I also have no issue with the redefinition of marriage by the supreme court. At this point in society I think our job is to focus on our own choices rather than dictating the choices that others get to make.
Wonderful, kind and loving stance on Same Sex Marriage. Nothing in the above article is unkind, rude or demeaning. Reminds me of Christ when he told the adulterer she was forgiven, the crux of Christ’s statement to her was, “GO AND SIN NO MORE.” How beautiful is that!
Just to clarify, folks, this is what a church believes. You are not required to believe it. Members are not required to believe it. This is advice for people in the church who agree with it and use it to make decisions about how they choose to live their lives. Religions have doctrines. The government does not get to decide what the doctrines of the various religions should be. That’s kind of an important principle in a free country. If you want a church that recognizes same-sex marriages, there are plenty out there. It’s not complicated.
I support 100% Church standard of marriage.
First off, Larry, I don’t know how in the world you don’t think this nation is a theocracy, it is. Just do some research of history and you will find the answer. Second, Beerz, we do uphold the law of the land as long as it is in line with God’s law. Look back to the scriptures of Daniel and the lion’s den. The law was set forth to not pray, but he chose to do it anyway and got thrown in the lion’s den. It’s not just a pick and choose thing. The church never says to hate or discriminate against gays, lesbians, or anyone of that matter. We just believe in the sanctity of marriage and how man and woman ARE supposed to be together. I’m gonna call it now, but our nation will go downhill as things like this which is against God’s plan keep happening. We are so close to the second coming of our Savior Jesus Christ. I will continue to follow Him and uphold the laws that will ultimately bring us happiness because they are right.
The Church is all the way right, no matter what man may think,no one can go againt the LAWS NATURE.
Why do all the supporters of gay marriage get angry when someone doesn’t agree with them? If someone doesn’t support gay marriage then leave them alone. God (and the Church) WILL NEVER accept sin no matter what. Love sinner but not the sin. What’s next on the agenda? Incestuous marriage, pedophilia marriage, necrophilia marriage, where will it stop? Where should the line be drawn? Should all these be accepted also??? Answer that question. Let’s see your reasoning…
I would like to remind everyone of the parable of the 10 virgins. Some of you on this post desperately need oil. I would recommend getting some before the night of the bride grooms wedding.
This isn’t “new”. It is a reiteration of Church’s stance on gay marriage.
Religious belief such as keeping the commandments goes deeper than laws that are made by men. You cannot go against god and his will. Being attracted to the same sex is a CHOICE! You are NOT born that way. I say that because I know and have been through it.
The key to this matter is?
Do you believe in God and the Savior.
If you do keep the commandments.
If you do not keep mans law.
Otherwise live in anarchy.
Too many people choose anarchy.
The Church leaders have taken a very thoughtful and respectful approach to this situation. To simply disregard their sensitivity to the publishing of their position restricts one’s own intelligence, whether one accepts gay marriage or not. It would be well to consider how restrained the First Presidency has been in protecting those experiencing same sex attraction.
That being said, it would be even better for those expressing indignation or even indifference to understand the federal power shift that has taken place. The supreme court in essence has stretched outside of the constitution to define marriage. The ramifications are generous and for those willing to applaud the action, they may soon find more of their inalienable rights altered to fit the designs of a select few. Perhaps those who are disagreeable are agreeable to losing more freedoms to others?
It is a very sad day. The concept of live and let live is dead. The straight people hate the gay people because they dont conform to how they feel the world works. And the gay people hate the straights because they dont approve. Ive got news for everyone The straights will never ever approve of being gay. And to the gay people I say why do you bother trying to get their approval. I grew up in a really small town where everyone personal life was respected and no one got in someone’s life and bend them to what they wanted. Shame on all you Gay, straight or whatever. If you are gay be proud of who and what you are. If your straight be proud of who and what you are. And last but not least everyone remember your right to swing a baseball bat ends where your neighbors nose begins. These comments make me weep for the future all of you grow up
Comments here are so polarizing it is sad.
The new law made by the Supreme Court does not force the church to change its doctrine, it just forces states to change their definition of marriage.
The church has acknowledged that same gender attraction is a real thing, they just hold to their belief that we are not slaves to our desires and all able to choose how we act and that acting on same gender attraction is a sin in the eyes of God.
The ordained clergy of a religion reaching out to their congregation to reaffirm their teaching amid societal changes isn’t such an absurd thing to see happen and whoever titled this story with “a New Directive” is at best uninformed and at worst a grandiose liar. A new reaffirmation of existing doctrine is not a new directive,
Our countries roots start in religious freedom, it’s where we started. We are “One nation under God”. I am a Christian and lds and I’m going to be faithful to my beliefs. Think what you may of this but I have the right to believe in traditional marriage. As the Declaration of Independence states, “we are endowed by our Creator with certain inaliable rights”. Among those I don’t believe is gay marriage.
It’s unfortunate that each side of gay marriage have proponents that choose to exibit hate and deeming comments. I can’t imagine how I’d handle being gay. It must be hard for some and more for others. I think The Churches statement here is right where it should be and I agree with it. I pray our nations citizens can make peace with one another and that our leaders can remember the God who raised this nation.
Homosexual acts are in the category of gross wickedness. This is not opinion, but a moral law of God. Governments attempting to legitimize homosexuality by changing the definition of marriage cannot turn evil into good. The end game of the pro-pervert lobby is to force acceptance of their morally degrading way of life on individuals and institutions of high moral character and values.
I have noticed in my own beliefs that they have changed over time. Growing up in the church that I love I had no problem with what is taught in the proclamation of the family. I still believe it. I have three daughters, one of which is gay. She is loved by our family like the other 4. She is getting married to her partner in August. We are thrilled for her. She is happy. At a recent wedding where many friends and family were apart, a dear friend approached me and told me my daughter looked like the happiest person in the room of about 250 people…Her partner ranked 2 by my dear friend.
During the past 10 years, my daughter has been offended and put in positions by church leaders that nobody should have to endure. Love is Key. We are taught to love God and our neighbors as ourselves. My hope that we can do that. Love others as we would want to be loved. Condemnation of peoples lives is not our job, even though her experience has been just the opposite.
I have faith in Christ. I feel strongly that my family will be fine. Love will rule the day as we love all of Gods children in our every
days and in our thoughts and prayers.
Love of God and Love of our neighbors…even my gay daughter who is getting married on August 15. We are excited for her and look forward to an eternity learning about our eternal family. She is loved and that includes our Heavenly Father and our beloved Savior. That is good enough for me.
I’m a transgender and also a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Now, before I say anything, I must say that I’m not pointing fingers on who’s right and who’s wrong. Growing up, I had a strong testimony and was always anxious to learn things about the gospel. However, things started changing when I started to transition from male to female. For the past eight years, I have not step foot on my chapel because of what I have become. The fear of what people might think or say about me. The looks they will give and the approach I might get from them is the reason I don’t want to step into those doors. I respect the church and its principles. Its teachings and doctrines, I must say. But the people and their attitude towards me is what keeps me distance from stepping back in. I respect their views. Doubtfully, they don’t respect me for what I have become. I have read the article from the Presidency of the gospel and I must say, there is nothing nor anything that I would want to go against it. I believe in the gospel, the bible and all that mentioned to us about the laws and rules of our Lord. I respect that. The bible is considered one of the most ancient books and moreover, I believe in it. I also believe that love conquers all, or, at least that’s what mankind believes. For my fellow LGBTQ community, you can call me a bystander or whatever you might wish to call me. I will always love you no matter what. But I will always stand on my ground and face the consequences that the Lord might punish me with. It’s true, this life that we are living in now is the life God gave us to prosper well and do what we like to do. We are given the freedom to choose who we want to become in life and enjoy every bit of it. I have enjoy my life. It is the life that I chose to live and that life is the life of being a transgender. I have nothing against it and I’m proud of who I’m. What matters the most is that I believe in the lord, the bible, and the teachings of the gospel through our ordain leaders. And the most important thing, my family. They support me for the person I’m today and love me no matter what.
The teaching of the church is straight forward and it would always be straight forward. I do respect others to who are gay. I have friends that are gay and there not bad people. If they want to get married to each other than go right ahead. It’s there freedom of choice! My friends respect me and I respect them. They no I’m straight and they will never cross that line. Gay, homosexual, bisexual, are good people. Don’t judge them of what they do.
Understandably there will be differences between civil US law and the requirements set by Latter Day Saints and other religious groups with regard to marriage and other issues pertaining to human sexuality. Churches will be free to practice according to their beliefs and refrain from marrying those who desire marriage but who are of the same gender. Those who wish to marry anyone
will enjoy that right under civil law. Clearly the rules and practices need to be kept separate so that the rights of marriage equality under the U.S. Constitution can be enjoyed by all. Love wins! Mazeltov!
Delete above comment. Comment corrected for clarity below. Thank you
Understandably there will be differences between civil US law and the requirements set by Latter Day Saints and other religious groups with regard to marriage and other issues pertaining to human sexuality. Churches will be free to practice according to their beliefs and refrain from marrying those who desire marriage but who are of the same gender. Those who wish to marry anyone will enjoy that right under civil law. Clearly the rules and practices of civil marriage and of marriage regulated by religious regulations need to be kept separate so that the rights of marriage equality under the U.S. Constitution can be enjoyed by all. Love wins! Mazeltov!
This is awesome… Happy this response is coming from the church… Its surprising when people say God created them(GLT) so because they feel so. How about people that also have feelings to steal, rape and kill, were they created so? The devil is just so wicked!!! He hasn’t stop deceiving. As Christians we should’nt forget to hate the sin and love the sinner.
If you do not agree with this keep your comments to yourself. Just as gay marriage is now a legal right, people are still free to believe and worship how they want. This statement by the First Presidency is 100% spot on and in NO way diminishes or looks down on a person individually.
I am grateful for who God is, He’s no man at all, so no matter what man’s opinion is concerning He’s divine teaching, it can never change. So, it behoves everyone who says or thinks otherwise to consult the Words in which all of God’s teachings are embedded. If by the Power of the Holy Ghost they are convinced that these words teaches all mankind to engage in Same-Sex marriage, let them judge. Thanks LDS Church.
I sincerely thank God for who He is, for what He God has said, He has said and He excuse not Himself especially that which has to do with His divine teachings. No mater what men’s opinion or feelings maybe, He can not change. So, whoever has a different thought or say on the Divine Teachings of God, should do a thorough search on the Scriptures, with real intent with the Power of the Holy Ghost they will know the truth of all things relating to Same-Sex Marriage, For God Cannot Be Mocked. Thanks LDS Church for your standards.
That’s right !!! You heard it right!!
Why is it so hard for anyone to accept Gods rules??? Anyone who thinks we LDS people are repressed and made to obey blindly has obviously never felt TRUE PEACE AND HAPPINESS!!!! Obey GODS LAWS!! You might experience freedom and contentment!!!
All they are saying is that it’s cool if you’re gay and you can come and chill with us but we won’t show any support. we are choosing to follows God commandments and plan. You all made your choice and you won. Quit worrying about what the church thinks, the church is always going to do gods will whether people like it or not. If you don’t know that by now then I don’t know what to tell you.
If God and Obama were standing before me holding out 2 opposite laws and asking me to pick one….I would pick God’s law over man’s law any day. Mans law , in my mind do not trump or change Gods Law. I follow God and his son Jesus Cheist until the ends of the earth. I can not control what other people think about laws or about me. I respect your right to think and believe what you want as that is your agency but I expect the same respect for me.
Christ…sorry.
I sustain the prophet and apostles as prophets, seers, and revalators. Beerz, I think you have an outstanding question; one that I have thought about myself, and even asked the stake president member who interviewed me for my temple recommend. I was told that nothing had been said but it would when the time came. I know this is hard and confusing and I have done as the leaders of the church have invited to pray to receive answers for myself. Having done that and continuing to do so, I understand for myself there are social issues that will be passed into law that will violate the commandments of God and the Church cannot and will not serve two masters. Also, a scripture came to mind which if you don’t mind I will paraphrase. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden of Eden, Adam built an alter to offer sacrifice. An angel appeared to them and asked Adam why he was doing so to which Adam replied “I know not, save the Lord commanded me.” Then the angel told Adam that his sacrifice was in the similitude of the sarifice of the Savior. Above all, obedience is the first law of heaven. We may not be able to tell folks why or give them a satisfactory answer but for me personally I don’t have all of the answers, especially answers that will satisfy opposing views. Also, I am reminded of the First Amendment to the Constitution which states Congress shall make now respecting the establishment of religion or the free exercise thereof (paraphrased).
Meant “Congress shall make no law . . . “
What did the elders have to say about this in 1865?
Leviticus 25:44-46New International Version (NIV)
44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
The sale of alcohol is the law of the land/legal yet good, active Mormons choose to not drink because of the Word of Wisdom. Abortion is the law of the land but good, active Mormons choose not to do that because God has taught us the sanctity of life. There are many similar issues like chastity where things maybe be legal but we choose not to participate because of our religious convictions. We can disagree without being disagreeable or acquiescing to sin. Jesus loved the lady caught in adultery but He also taught people to sin no more: love the sinner but not the sin.
I pray you can come to a good place because someday we will all, individually, face God.
I am in total agreement with the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve on this matter. The Church has the right to have, express and enforce Church standards on any Church owned property. Faithful Mormons listen to the General Authorties on matters of policy and doctrine. I am Vietnam Veteran and retired military man. I also agree with the position taken by the Church It is the way of God. Also I agree that people have the right to disagree and make up their own mind. Free Agency is part of the doctrine of the church. I admire the church for making this statement and standing up for morality and ethics. To bad the Supreme Court does not have the same courage and respect as the church.
Why can’t the church have their opinion? Their opinion is as valid as any one else. There are bigots toward the LDS Church.
I want to say, TOLERANCE works on both ends. Don’t force people to believe what you believe. Why aren’t Homosexuals tolerant of heterosexuals? STOP THE HATE!!!! EVERYONE HOMOSEXUAL AND HETEROSEXUAL SHOULD STOP JUDGING EACH OTHER’S BELIEFS!!!! Homosexuals, stop preaching tolerance if you, yourself can not be tolerant. Heterosexuals, stop being hateful and throwing the bible in peoples faces, it makes them uncomfortable. LOVE THY NEIGHBOR. I have homosexual friends, I’m a member of this church, I love them very much they’re wonderful people I want them to be happy. If they were to get married, I’d probably attend because LOVE is beautiful. It’s a confusing time however I believe If I follow my Lord’s example, My children will as well.
I respect the First Amendment even more than your community claims to do so, since I am constantly viciously attacked by back-stabbing Mormons since I ex-communicated myself from your group after a 4-year association as a member of your church which proved to me there could be no continued relationship of any worth from among you. I, who have less than the wealthy of your illustrious pretence of persecution, have maintained myself in spite of the hindrances and abuses by your members-in-good-standing, Jack-Mormons, and ex-born-and-raised imposters of free-to-join-other-religions have attempted to remove from me. I seek a life free from the obstacles which you covertly organize and manipulate to force those who were deliberately mislead by your omissions of the true attitude of your church to join your community, but upon discovering the truth of your group, I was then refused to live without the hardships you conger against anyone who chooses to take their exit without any further contact or hindrance, which by-the-way violates MY First Amendment Rights all day, every day and you do so to trip my low income efforts to survival and force me to fall! So, you have hindered me in any way you can and it is by Constitutional and Amendment Rights violations and the pursuit of your church to utilize any means to isolate, financially degrade and insult my life because of a false Mormon belief that you can enslave those who joined and the decided to exit according to their religious consciences, in spite of my refusal and my constant insistance “I am not Mormon!”. You commit the worst atrocities and violations while you quote the Bible when in fact the only reason you flagrantly flaunt Biblical scripture is to appease the fundamentalists, along with True-Christians while your Church is not True to Christian doctrines nor the living work and life of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christian Messiah. I have endured all of these things and more by your church and your “friend of the Mormons” which is a conspiracy to prohibit my inalienable Rights, especially because I am a woman. This is America, not Mormon-Utah and your desired expansion across the United States by out-copulating and over-birthing a population hoping the usurping of my Rights and life because “I dare to be whom I am” will one day be easily traded for the Mormon chadra of lost citizenship and equal rights! I am working hard to accumulate the funds to relocate to Arizona where I will accomplish my surgeries, complete my college education, to regain self-sufficiency, so I will one day stand in any court to face your church to demand my own claims and those of others will not be lost to the hot air of religious pretences to override our pursuits of happiness as law-abiding, morally-sound citizens of good report and great standing before our God and good consciences to supports us!
WHAT?!?!?
We as members of the Mormon faith do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to the discussion traditional marriage. Our history on marriage is less than traditional. I know I will be standing up and walking out in protest if the Bishop or auxiliary leaders choose to read this ridiculous letter in Church this coming Sunday.
I believe strongly that revelation will one day come that opens up our understanding of those who are attracted to the same sex. Very rarely is this standard of living a choice. I believe strongly that they are welcomed and loved by our Heavenly Father just like any other child who walks this earth. I even see the day when same sex couples will be able to be sealed for time and all eternity. Of course this will cause many to leave the church just like the time when the majority of general authorities stopped being racist and gave blacks the priesthood.
Some might say I should just leave the church if I really feel this way. But that is the great thing about the gospel. It is for everyone! Even free thinkers like me.
It has never been easy to take the higher road. I will continue to live a life of acceptance and love while holding fast to the iron rod. Thank you for your consistent and kind direction.
Those reading this without knowledge of our Heavenly Father’s purposes will needless feel disheartened and perhaps see it as acting against certain views of nobility and community respect. Regardless of how we are born, and yes the church does acknowledge that some people are in fact, “Born that way,” (Ensign Oct. 1995) this should in no way negate our Heavenly Father’s edict of: “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” All throughout the world individuals are born with what Paul referred to as “Thorns in the Flesh,” (2Corinthians 12:8) These things, whether the product of our Nature, or societies Nurture, can and will keep us from fulfilling the full measure of what we can become. A homosexual union is for this life only. A marriage between a Man and Woman, Solemnized and Sealed in the Temple of the Lord, can and should be for Eternity. This has nothing to do with what we want, but has to do with the very nature of the Types of Marriage. Men and Women can produce Offspring. Men and Men, or Women and Women cannot. Not without considerable compromises that simply do not exist in the life hereafter. In heaven there is no Adoption, there is no Surrogacy, there is no having temporary relations with a person of the opposite sex for the purposes of creating a family. There is no (Insert other means here)…
Should we decide to disobey our Heavenly Parent, we do so on our own without His Support or Blessing. This has been stated time and time again throughout Holy Writ.
For a Man or Woman, who is Gay, Lesbian, Transgendered, or Bisexual, I would query: Do we love our Heavenly Parent enough to Trust and Obey him in these matters, relying on His Powerful Spirit to aid us in doing as we are asked? Or do we trust in ourselves and our own knowledge and strength to know what lay beyond mortal comprehension in the world here-to-come?
That CHOICE, is always ours.
This has been one of the confusing issues of my life. Two of my brothers who were taught the gospel and even went on missions decided to live the gay lifestyle. They have missed the blessings of children, which are the highlight of life and truly help us understand the love,patience, concern, wrath, frustration, deep sacrifice, and total adoration of God. No other experience gives us this understanding, and, though I love my brothers, I have mourned the loss of their children to our family. I know that Thomas S. Monson is a Prophet of God and is a voice of warning to this generation. We will not go astray if we follow his council. All of us are born with weekness and a desire to sin in some way. We do not condemn the sinner, it is not our job, but we teach what is right and invite all to follow God’s laws. I thank the First Presidency for their bold clarification about this issue.
It is indeed satan’s time. That is why the Lord is hastening His works! I hope all the people would listen the whispers of the Holy Ghost who is our constant companion. If they will do so, they will be guided to the right path. It is clearly stated in the “Family a Proclamation to the World. But, anyway we should be merciful also for those people who do not know the true The Gospel Of Jesus Christ.
What law are they breaking again?
i thank thee oh God for a prophet!! Homosexuality must be looked at, treated as or considered to be like any other challenge that must be endured here upon the earth. OK you are homosexual, you are attracted to the same sex as yourself….that is something you will have to live with and overcome acting upon it as if you were physically deformed, have diebetes, born in poverty or under privileged country etc etc. Any way you look at the situation and feel about it, Only a man and woman together, procreating can be sure this world continues to evolve according to our creator God. Why would anyone want to challenge that?
Wow such hateful comments! I am always amazed at how intolerant others are when a point of view is expressed that is not there point of view. This country was founded on these constitutional rights so the respect goes both ways and we all deserve respect despite our views!
You people who are against what the church has said are hateful, hateful, bigoted religophobes. Respect and love goes both ways.
I agree with the laws of the church teaching because the law of the land is wrong in this matter I sure don’t surport gay marriage never have never will.
What a bunch of selfish and hateful people. Always trying to push their beliefs and morals on society. You know it’s a choice, and everyone can stop if they try really, really hard.
And, I’m talking about the church.
At Shawn: This is how the world ends. Anyone who disagrees with your beliefs is now selfish and hateful. You’ve done a marvelous job vilifying people for one of the very things you have been fighting for…the right to express your views without retribution or retaliation. How can you in good conscious say things like this about people you obviously know nothing about. If I were you, I’d be happy you about the ruling, and I would go about encouraging people to stand up for what they believe just as you have done rather than trying to silence them be calling them hateful. Just a thought.
BURNNNN!!! (lol sorry, that’s probably unnecessary, but WORTH IT!)
No. The church is not selfish or hatred. Obviously you did not read it. It is saying that according to LDS standards, we do not agree with nor condon it. But as a member of the church, we should not outcast them, or be disrespectful to those who choose to live that life style. We are not trying to push our beliefs and morals on society. All this is, is showing what will be read in LDS church’s ONLY. This is put for public view, not to be ridiculed. If you do not like simply don’t read nor follow it.
I am a member of this church, there are plenty of things I do not agree with the church on. Such as smoking, something I do. Like gay marriage and smoking, the church does not agree, but it is a personal choice. It will not affect if the church welcomes you or not. We welcome any and everyone. the church does not hate on gays. It just does not agree with it. You need to sit there and read it thouroughly. Instead of post ignorant comments such as this.
The church does not “push their beliefs” on anyone. Everything the church teaches to anyone is an invitation to accept or decline. It’s about choice and free agency.
Oh, really? Because I thought you were talking about the gay lobby that you apparently belong to. I find your hypocrisy hilarious and ridiculous.
Shawn I have found members of the church to be among the least selfish OR hateful people on the planet. They serve their fellowman willingly, joyfully and generously and they love and tolerate those who call them selfish and hateful. You might be thinking of ISIS.
“God expects us to uphold and keep His commandments regardless of divergent opinions or trends in society. ”
So why’d they back track on polygamy, and blacks holding the priesthood then?
“Indeed, the Church has advocated for rights of same‐sex couples in matters of hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment, and probate, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches.”
So, were ignoring the money you donated to fund Prop 8 in California?
The church did not backtrack on polygamy they banned it when the government banned it….also known as “following the laws of the land”.
As a Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we truly believe that direction comes from God to our Phrophets then to the Church as a whole.
Polygamy and Blacks holding the Priesthood were both changes in policy not doctrine. And both of these changes came from God, not man. If you are interested in understanding these changes you can read about them at the end of The Doctrine and Covenants.
As for prop 8, it is my understanding that there was more to that proposition then gay marriage, but that religious freedom would also be effected. Every American should strongly defend their right to believe as they choose.
As a Member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints we truly believe that direction comes from God to our Prophets then to the Church as a whole.
Polygamy and Blacks holding the Priesthood were both changes in policy not doctrine. And both of these changes came from God, not man. If you are interested in understanding these changes you can read about them at the end of The Doctrine and Covenants.
As for prop 8, it is my understanding that there was more to that proposition then gay marriage, but that religious freedom would also be effected. Every American should strongly defend their right to believe as they choose.
prop 8 was only pertaining tpo marriages between a man and woman. not matters of hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment. educate yourself
You are correct, Beerz, we are to obey the law of the land, “unless” it is contrary to God’s law. Gods law always comes before “Mans” law. Below is just one example. Jesus also healed on Sunday ( or whatever the holy day was then) That too was against the law.
The Apostles Before the Council
Acts 5:28 ….. “We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.” 29 But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
I believe this statement by the LDS church leaders is correct. The statement is respectful and clear on where the church stands on the topic of homosexuality. So many responses are also respectful and clear whether for or against this official statement. I comment those responses!
How can the church act like it has the moral high ground on the issue of marriage when it commanded its members to practice polygamy? The hypocrisy is just one example of the church forgetting its own history.
Read the Book of Mormon and you’ll find the answer to your questions.
Oh so true…
How about God’s promise, what you make true on earth, I will make true in heaven? Are you saying that God will back out of a promise made to the original apostles?
This is not the church forgetting its history. When the government made polygamy illegal the church stopped practicing it because we follow the laws of the land. This doesn’t mean that because something is legal that its ok with the church, we are told not to drink or have sex outside of marriage even though that’s legal. We follow God’s laws as well as the laws of the land but God’s laws come first.
The church does not act like it has the moral high ground, it is just stating to its members what the LDS church believes.
And yes the church practiced polygamy, it was not for just fun and games. If you were authorized on to do so there was an important reason behind it, such as financial issues due to women not being able to work certain jobs now being allowed to own land.
Before you go saying this about the church like this, please know the facts and know what your talking about before you sound so ignorant.
“Only the Church President held the keys authorizing the performance of new plural marriages.”
The Church does “NOT” Command its members to practice pologamy. As a matter of fact, the church has Forbid Pologamy. I am thinking that you may want to perform your “DUE DILIGENCE” before making a statement like this. And for the record, Pologamy was used as the people were coming across the EMPTY PLAINS as they headed west and escaping the persecution and as the men died, others took upon them the other man’s family. When the Need for this ended, so did Pologamy.
It is my firm belief that polygamy is not immoral. Is it illegal “in certain countries”? Yes. But then are we not all learning all over again that, morality does not = legality?
In the Bible there were many times when polygamy was condoned by God and other times when it was not. It is according to the plan and purposes of God ‘to raise up a righteous seed unto him’ but not to have wives and concubines to satisfy your lusts. Before condemning things you don’t understand, you may want to do your own research to find out the truth of why polygamy was practiced for a short time. Only about 3% of the worthy men were asked to take more than one wife in order to provide for those who had lost their husbands. This was an act of service and unselfishness and in most cases a greater burden on those men. Again, it was a test of obedience and sacrifice….the 2 great refining principles that most people in the world today no longer know the meaning of, let alone comprehend.
Those commenting due to hatred toward the LDS faith or the article itself did not fully read it for understanding. The church is not saying to retaliate, hate, diss own or not tolerate those wishing to act as now allowed through the supreme court ruling. They are saying they are welcome in the church houses and are welcome to participate. They even said those having those thoughts and not “acting” on them are welcome to hold callings and attend the temples.
For the person who used the argument of “obeying the law of the land”, You are fishing for something to argue. The laws of our land clearly state you can smoke if 18 and drink if 21. The church teaches against both of these regardless of age.
The church teaches against homosexuality and will not perform weddings on their property but will welcome them to worship in the churches or participate in other activities.
The church encourages people to not gamble but it is legal in several places.
The church and its membership have always claimed to be a unique people and will not turn people away. You can be excommunicated in the LDS faith for whatever reason and are still welcome to worship the following Sunday. The church doesnt ever push people away. People run themselves off. People choose to be offended. People choose to feel left out. People choose to come or go.
In the end it is your choice and none of this LGBT stuff has anything to do with the church.
If I were to voice my opinon on facebook and twiiter and in public like most of my friends or acquaintances it would get ugly. The reason being is we are all Bigots in the true sense. We ALL want to argue our own opinion to the point of us being right/correct or we want to express how wrong someone else is.
Get over it already. If you hate the church then dont go to church. If you disagree with Homosexuality then dont be gay.
In the end we are all the same. We are either male or female and we live on earth in a body. We should care for each other and stop complaining. We should serve each other regardless of each others choices.
“Dont worry be Happy……”
I just wanted to thank you for your comment, I very much agree with you! Thank you so much!
No, that’s exactly what they are saying, they are saying essentially “we reserve the right to hate gay people whenever we feel in conflicts with our religion.” The law “love they neighbor has been in effect for basically ever, yet when has “god’s law” ever stopped the members of the church from hating on gay people?
If I’m reading this correctly they aren’t saying they hate gay people ..only the sexual behaviour they engage in!..so if one was a thief he would be still loved but not his actions ..love thy neighbor and thy enemies as thyself
Um, a few things:
1) If preferring the same sex is against God’s will, perhaps God should stop making people who prefer the same sex. Sadly, the LDS church feels that a person who is biologically predisposed to preferring the same sex is committing a sin, yet the person was made that way. What’s a gay LDS person to do, other than bear the weight of crushing guilt placed upon their shoulders by the leadership of the church? What a horrible place the church puts LGBT’s.
2) There is a continuum of what’s “normal”. Same-sex preference fits squarely within that continuum. It’s the way it’s always been, is, and always shall be. Guess what? It also exists in the normal continuum in the animal world. Not a choice.
3) It’s been proven time and again that you can’t “pray away the gay”. Why? See #1 and #2. It’s not a choice folks.
4) If you feel you are somehow impacted by marriage equality, please consider that either you or your spouse may actually be gay. Then, congrats! You may live and love as you please!
5) The constitution of the United States protects your freedom to practice your religion. Please also be aware that it protects me from your religion. You may not, according to the constitution, force your religion on me.
6) Everyone is tired of hearing “hate the sin, not the sinner”. Just love. Don’t hate.
Cheers!
jm
You are either for God, His Son Jesus Christ, and His Church led by Him through His prophet and apostles or you are against Him. I pray that in this hour men’s hearts will not fail them. Stand with God. Remember brothers and Sisters. We represent God and His Church to the people not the people to God and His Church.
Hello Squeakers.
Everything said is so true. The laws of man are not always the laws of God. Sometimes God’s laws will be a lot stricter, and why not? It was hard for Jesus to go through all of his trials. The man or woman who feels same gender attraction but does not act on it is a hero. James 1:12 “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” Read the next verse after this one. Its a bit strong, but still the word of God. If the Bible is true nobody can say “God made me this way”
utah is the largest per capita for homosexuality….. And the greater percentage are LDS… You should deal with your own demons within your selves and your closeminded teachings. My ex father in law is a quarum of the 12 apostle. He was a very good man and I would say he is the most open minded of the bunch. My daughters go to church and one is baptized. But they are not taught these ways of the church. They are around gay and lesbian couples and they will never treat them any different than anyone else. I believe that gay and lesbian familys are more than addiquite to raise a family being LDS or not…..a lot of the problems are the members of the church have so many pent up and repressed feelings that the act out on children and never have a real consiquence given other than that child being hurt, in more ways than one. Denial and not accepting homosexuality is fuel that fires your demons. So I ask you all, I guess you are wondering why I brought you all here today.? It is to tell you all to wake up… Thank you .
.H.
All I will say is, sodom and gomorrah
Questions about polygamy or blacks holding the priesthood are good questions to be sure, but they are just not relevant with regard to questions of morality. If you don’t understand why polygamy is no longer in practice or why blacks did not hold the priesthood for a period of time, then there is no way those questions in your mind will help you to understand why God will not change regarding not only the practice of marriage, but the unchanging doctrines behind His moral laws of sexuality.
The lds church is a hurtful sin devised by satan. It appears inclusive and kind, but couldn’t be further from it. satans way of making a human feeling tool of deceit and lies.
I think everyone should be gay. The government should make it illegal for the traditional marriage between a man and a women unconstitutional. We should all be gay and marry the same-sex. Our society would thrive. We would have so much peace and love. Our children would grow up in prosperity. It would be wonderful. Disease and strive would disappear. We would stop arguing with everyone.
If they don’t make it illegal they should at least define what marriage is. If it means what it has since the dawn of civilization then leave it that way. If two people of the same sex want to get married then ok, cool.
Marry someone of the opposite-sex. If they don’t want to fine, but by definition it is not a marriage it is a union. Don’t call it what it isn’t. It’s clearly a union between two people. Afford them all the rights of a “marriage” but don’t call it what it isn’t.
But the church does condone incest as if the Adam and eve story is true, their sons and daughters would of had to inter-breed to populate the earth..
Not to mention the percentage of missionaries who return home and have become homosexual during there mission
Also how much of a hypocrite the church is… how can a religion preach not to drink soda and alcohol yet own majority stock in coca cola and budwieser?
since none of those people you have listed are anyone that i put faith in….i would say i do not believe in them….they are not of my faith…and my faith and my beliefs are right….so therefore, your ‘so called laws’ do not apply to me…or my faith… i was taught LOVE….all you christians preach is hate…you will say anything to make yourselves feel right even when you know you are wrong…..that’s call lying… but i am an american…and i will obey the american laws… i was born christian…that changed after seeing the evil done by christians in the name of the church after i was taught that the teachings of jesus were all that mattered….i would not be christian again is someone paid me…
The prophet of God communicates the mind and will of our heavenly father to us. Its a commandment for a man and a woman to be legally married as husband and wife anything short of that is not the lord’s way. Following the lord’s way will bring the world and families peace and joy in abundance. Surely the lord God will do nothing but to reveal His secret to His servant the prophet (Amos 3:7) Follow the prophet he knows the way … God bless the church leaders for their work, for speaking the truth without fear or favor.
I think any preacher should have the right to remind his or her congregation about God’s stand on an issue, whether society likes it or not. Having said that, this article also remind the members to treat gays with respect. Well written in my opinion.
The longer I live the more convinced I am that the best answer to serious sin is to preach repentance. Love God, love your neighbour, teach the truth and oppose sin even when it is unpopular and stand by the good sense of the commandments of God and the teachings of His living prophets even Thomas S. Monson – who have just spoken God’s truth.
Remember James 4:4 “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”
I have same sex attraction. I am a member of the LDS church. I am married to a member of the opposite sex. Have children. Support gay right. Again I say, I have same sex attraction, but have CHOSEN to never act upon it. Yes it was a CHOICE. I could have CHOSEN to be a lesbian (opportunities were there), but I CHOSE to follow God’s Plan. No it has not always been easy to keep on the path of righteousness. Society tempts, movies tempt, tv tempts, individuals tempt, but following God’s standards has always been more tempting.
Just because you have “CHOSEN” to not “ACT” on your same sex attraction, does not mean that you have “CHOSEN” not to be homosexual. All it means is that you have chosen to not act on your homosexual feelings. You were still born a lesbian….you did not choose to be one or not be one.
A little off subject now…..I have been reading the comments posted here. Regardless of what you believe, what you disagree with, or what you like or don’t like, that is perfect.
We live in a nation that allows for people to speak their mind….it’s the American way.
Just remember….alot of people….men, women….straight, or homosexual….fought for you to have….and keep…..that right. Many lost their lives do that you can keep that right.
I am just one of those many. I truly enjoy seeing that right being used. I fought so that you can engage is coversation….so you can agree and disagree.
LDS….I don’t agree with your stance, but that is okay. Please, keep your stance. I will respect it….as you will respect what I believe….for that I thank you.
“God expects us to uphold and keep His commandments regardless of divergent opinions or trends in society. ”
So why’d they back track on polygamy, and blacks holding the priesthood then?
“Indeed, the Church has advocated for rights of same‐sex couples in matters of hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment, and probate, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the traditional family or the constitutional rights of churches.”
So, were ignoring the money you donated to fund Prop 8 in California?
@Beerz, would you have also upheld the law of the land in Germany to turn in your Jewish neighbors?
OMG! You’re uneducated sick in the head people! People don’t choose to be gay or not. People were born this way. It was proved by so many studies. Do some research on the internet at least.
I know that what the prophet has said is true. When the laws of the land conflict with the law of God, lets go with Gods dictates, it will bring us untold happiness.
God says to love one another….
its as easy and simple as that
Great works of council and a just a reiteration of core values and a proof that we LDS members do not hate gay people but we strive to live our lives by obedience to God commandments, grateful to have men like this to guide us through this perilous times.
It bums me to see us humans fight one another when we are all 99% the same. It’s only 1% that differentiates us, and yet we “choose” to polarize differences by many times that. Religion teaches love, yet many cannot practice it unless others share such similar thoughts. “Love is the power that initiates friendship, tolerance, civility, and respect. It is the source that overcomes divisiveness and hate.” – Uchdorf.
Christ is the example: Romans 13:
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
As the wife of a Mormon,gay man, sealed in the temple to him, I know VERY WELL it is not a choice. Just like we straight people don’t wake up one morning and say, “Hmmm, should I find men attractive today or women?” That is ridiculous to suggest that it’s a choice. If you have ever had a gay person in your family or in your life, you would understand the struggle they face not being able to act upon what they feel as naturally as we straight people feel about the opposite sex. The ignorance among LDS members and the lack of love and tolerance is repulsive to me. When my husband came out to me, he was devastated to have to tell me and compromise the foundation our marriage was built on. But, it was better for me that he was honest. We have children together and we have explained to them what their father is dealing with. THIS WAS NOT A CHOICE! He did not want to disrupt our world. But he needed his wife and family to help him be strong. It would be interesting to know what vices you people pointing your fingers deal with on a daily basis that might possibly cost you your temple recommends or your membership in the Church, but you are just covert enough to avoid having to reconcile your sins. STOP JUDGING. It’s not your place. God help the ignorant and hateful members of this Church.
Here’s the bottom line friends. In any situation, there us one simple question to ask: What is the purpose? There are but two answers: fear or love. All this contention, arguing, and defending one’s “beliefs” is merely a smokescreen. A barrier keeping us from the peace and love within. “Defenses do what they would defend.” Regardless of which side of the issue you are on forgiveness will take you beyond it, in the sense of forgiving yourself for believing that anything outside of you can have an affect. We always have a choice, fear or love. The choice for fear is merely a delay and actually a call for love. Let go of your need to be right and love is all that remains.
who ever that support same sex marriage is insane and must be evill i stand by the church
This is repulsing, this is just another excuse to allow religious people to hate, discriminate, judge, and be prejudice towards homosexuals from a religious platform. On the subject of homosexuals being for this, that’s the equivalent of black people liking slavery. I mean how can you enjoy being repressed? I know it says to love all people, but come on… seriously? That’s been a rule since the birth of Christianity, and having a leader tell someone “don’t hate people for their differences” has literally never stopped anyone.
This article just basically reaffirms where I have stood on the sunject of Gay Rights. I completely agree with the idea that homosexuals should have the same rights as me or you. But I don’t think their rights should infringe on the rest of our’s. They have their rights now. And we have our’s so lets just leave it at that.
It is amazing to read what everyone is writing. It is so clear that each one writing here has a preconceived belief on this issue so are unable to even openly read and consider the other side’s comments and position. One side is even reading something into the LDS statement that is not even there. What is even more amusing is the folks that do not believe in God or the Bible and their belief is based on a notion they pulled out of their butt and nothing more. To come to an intelligent belief one way or the other both sides of the topic must be researched in depth….not merely decided by one’s thoughts or on reading one or two books. It is evident from their statements that they have never done research on the authenticity of the Bible and clearly have never read it through. Several atheist have set out to disprove the Bible doing deep research and have all come back believers in the Bible. There is overwhelming proof but one can only know it
if they do their homework. The LDS church is sincere I believe but neither have they done an unbiased study of The Bible or they would know that the writings of Joseph Smith are incorrect. That book is not even grammatically correct. They too approach the Bible with preconceived notions and wrong beliefs coming from the Book of Morman. If they could only do what they are asking the other side to do in clearing their head and take an objective look and do their homework instead of believing what mom and dad and grandma and grandpa blindly passed down they would be shocked at the truth about the Book of Morman. We are coming down to the final time in this world and I my advice to ALL would be to do your homework on what is real and true and then make up you mind on what you believe and don’t believe. Become an educated person on the subject and not a novice who forms opinions based on what they feel. I’m sure glad my doctor doesn’t treat my health issues based on what he feels or on a book or two he read. I want a professional opinion based on research and study. All of you should too.
Oh the irony of your statement. Reading that you say one must research and know both sides of the topic is true, but funny as you give your advice. The fact that you cannot even spell the word “mormon” correctly tells me of your ignorance and lack of taking your own counsel. It was just too much for me not to comment. While I agree with the idea you profess, your comment clearly identifies that even as it is spoken, it is rarely taken. If you were to read the Book of Mormon and not just believe blindly in what your pastor said (oh more hypocrisy) then maybe I can read your comment without chuckles and entertainment value.
And as a doctor… I will tell you what most of my colleagues will confirm, and that is that every doctor makes decisions based on both what they feel and what they know from best practices. If you are true to your words here, then research both sides, until then you are just another ignorant comment with no truth above your own feelings on the topic and offers no validity to any of your words… even the true ones.
I stumbled upon this website and won’t be back to read comments. I just wanted to point out the flaw in your “logic” for your own benefit. good luck in life my friend.
The Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints stop practicing polygamy because our nation pronounced it illegal. Which was set into law in an illegal manner. They did not back track. They were obeying the law of the land. As for the black issue, many our prophets prayed for the day to allow the priesthood to go to every worthy male. That was not back tracking either, It was waiting on the Lord. This country was founded on religious freedom and freedom from oppression. If you are a member you strive to live after the example of Christ. If you are not a member we do not seek to make you believe or practice what we do. But we cannot allow you to force us to live by your standards either. That would be against God’s law and all this nation was built upon. “Choose ye this day….but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord”
I join my voice to the voices of the prophets to testify that same sex marriage is evil. Romans 1:24-27. only demons will abet to or practice it.
Mr. Patrick Benedict, might I know the source(s) for this post, please?
The person that wrote the previous comment stated that the church believes in obeying the laws of the land. Though it is probably obvious to most people, it may be necessary to point out that the church’s lack of support for gay marriage is not in any way shape or form illegal. Therefore the church is still obeying the laws of the land.
Lets leave religion out of this for a moment. All mankind is born with and holds an innate knowledge of wrong and right. In all of our heart of hearts, if we are truly honest with ourselves, we know wrong from right. Even as you read this, you know that this is true. Those who live outside of this personal knowledge despise truth and they despise anyone who speaks it. They fight truth, knowing that they are fighting truth to justify their divergence from personal integrity and truth and their inability to honor and live it. Everyone knows it, including them and they look like fools.
I thought that was beautifully put, and so clear and precis. Understanding God’s plan is what helps us all make the right choices in this life. And I agree, love the sinner, not the sin.. He has set up the foundation for eternal happiness, and so little is asked of us. I pray that those that can not see or reach what the Lord need them to do, that they have the strength to get through the path they have chosen. I am so glad that the First Presidency put this out.. It was from the Lord and was so needed to be said.. For it is more important that a man stand up for what he believes than to sway too and fro with no direction.. With that belief in our Father in Heaven comes direction and strength, that is so vital in this mortal life..
Interesting how the “Church” stopped plural marriages because of the laws of the land and to be in keeping with them. Why can’t it keep this law?
Because marriage is sacred. It cannot be done if the two people are on the same gender. Honestly, it is wrong in the God’s commandments.
Apples and Oranges.
They stopped Polygamy, a Practice of Doctrine, not a Change of Doctrine… so that the State could receive Statehood AND the Feds wouldn’t break up and destroy the Church…
Gay Marriage is a PREFERENCE, which violates our Doctrines…
Get it?
God created man and woman so that they will live happily as a family here on earth. As I saw some of the comments here, I am with the side of people who are against gay marriages. The world has ever changed, but the heavenly laws and commandments of God are not. In my point of view, as well as supported on others as well, I saw this as an earthly change, that Satan tries to disrupt the importance of marriage. Marriage is an important thing for us as a man and woman, not in the same-sex.
Earthly meaning on earth only but not on heaven… sorry if misguided.
And this letter, this way of thinking is why I chose to shun my Mormon faith. Being gay is not a choice. If God made men and women homosexuals who are we to challenge what God has made? President Monson, you say that The Constitution gave us the right to religious freedom, and now that same government is giving us the right to marry whomever we choose, same sex or not. So why then President Monson is one constitutional right okay to uphold and the other not? This letter you share with your wards, is not based on a democratic action. It is based on a dictatorship action. Maybe you should put down your Book of Mormon for a while and pick up the bible which your faith is supposed to be based on. My bible clearly states that “you are all children of God. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male or female, for you are ALL one in Christ.” Galatians 3:28.
I don’t get the headline. I thought there was going to be something new from the Church. Nothing in this article is new in any way, shape, or form. This is a compilation of things that have been said many times over the past few years. Only those who haven’t been listening to what church leaders are saying would think that any of this is new.
Love and Tolerance work both ways.
The LDS have firmly established beliefs.
If you demand Love and Tolerance FROM the LDS for whatever behaviors you want to engage in, maybe giving a little Love and Tolerance for the LDS and their beliefs might be the thing to do?
After reading so many comments I it is evident that those who accuse The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as being intolerant have shown a lot of intolerance in the comments they have posted than those who defend it.
I always thought those who are homosexual would be the most tolerant people in our society because they know first hand how it feels like to be persecuted just for being different than the majority/crowd.
To avoid judging ignorantly, come to our chapels, homes and activities. Spend a day or two with the members of the church then you will be justified for whatever perception you will hold about its members.
If you criticise, it OK, but do so intelligently. No one will take you seriously when you rant and curse.
Man’s laws cannot make moral what has God declared immoral.
Wow, longest convo I’ve ever read so far in my existence. I guess bottom line is too simple RESPECT. Please do not bash our prophet. We all may claim our own beliefs, while we respect each other.
any religion that respect others religion teaches the right religion. Although we’re from different system, but we respect each other. I am a Latter-Day Saint. Its our system, we believe in it, we respect yours. Continue to mock other religion is not a true religion. God said Love One Another, even our strongest enemies. I hope you got my point. I love you.
“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.” Joseph Smith Jr.
I agree with this previous statement written by Joseph Jr. the prophet back in the the 18 hundreds. I am NOT Mormon. (He was but one man who abridged most of the Book of Mormon.) But… ‘I DO belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints…. I know who I am… I know God’s Plan,.. I’ll follow him in faith…. I believe in the Savior, Jesus Christ,… I’ll honor his name….. I strive to do what is right;… I’ll strive to follow his light… His truths I will proclaim.’
The easiest way to find the truth, is to:… search in the purest scriptures, (the Bible, and the Book of Mormon),… ponder them in your heart…and humbly pray with sincere desire and diligence to want to know the truth.
And then hopefully you receive the answer that you are looking for.
Just a matter of time before gays will be married in the Temple. Give it about 20-50 years. Possibly sooner if the federal government takes away the tax exempt status. Watch and see, the Church will fold when it involves loosing money, just like they did on polygamy and polyandry. BTW, I’m a very active member of the church.
20 – 50?this will never happen!
If you’re an active member of the church then you should better than that! God made adam and eve not adam and steve. What you are saying will never happen even in the Second Coming!!
You should know better than that!
Wow!!! Really? Take a hike????????????????????
Def cant Agree with You!!! Will never happen and to say you are very active, makes your comment even sadder??? Heavenly Inspired!!! Not Man’s Desire???
There’s no such thing as tax exempt, the church is honestly paying taxes on all its properties and businesses. What you are predicting gay marriage to happen in the temple in the years to come will never happened.
Dude, that aint gonna happen
You little “Faith” my friend…
Marty, if you can predict 20-50 years ahead please publish your insight on the stock market at that time and on all other critical life issues including religion and politics, etc. While your statements regarding temple marriages for gays, etc., seem plausible based on how other institutions would react, the church has a history of surprising plausible thinking. Best wishes. ssjackson
If that happens , I’d probably become an atheist, but I doubt it
All I can say about this message that do not forget who are !!!! And always make right choices even it is hard !!!! Because that guy in the corner working 24/7 to mess up Heavenly Father children’s mind !!! So be aware !!! Choose the right and do what is right !!!!
Thats correct if believe tgat tgere is God and believe and know him…..choose the rigth…
I SUSTAIN IT….
IMPORTANT: JOHN 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Exodus 20:4-6
“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [of any thing] that [is] in heaven above, or that [is] in the earth beneath, or that [is] in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the …”
Right here we see men in power breaking this commandment. They are creating a God to suit “THEIR” needs and the IMMORAL followers who are pressuring them to change what GOD said was SIN.
1Corinthians 6:9-10
“9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous1 will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: xneither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,2 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
Therefore, it is GOD who says homosexuality is WRONG. Take your argument with HIM.
I like most all comments
But I think Jone Pita is best.
I am not a active member of the church, I have many faults, but in my opinion marriage is between a man and a woman.
The power of choice is given to most all humanity. It is a great responsibility. Therefore if you choose to be in a civil union between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, I’ll respect that. You will not get any less from me than I will give unto an other. Please don’t attempt to force me to be contrary to my beliefs. In doing so you will earn disrespect.
If the LDS thinks it can get more mony,they will,cave in.& allow gays. In the temple. AND JOSEPH SMITH,WAS NEVER A PROFIT!!