SALT LAKE CITY, Utah, April 17, 2023 (Gephardt Daily) — Gephardt Daily had the chance to speak to Jerry Rapier, artistic director of Plan-B Theatre Company, along with Carleton Bluford, who is playing Wallace Thurman in the company’s current production, “Fire!” by Jenifer Nii.
Thurman was a queer Black man in Salt Lake City at the turn of the previous century. He attended West High School, the University of Utah, and Calvary Baptist Church. He was also at the heart of the Harlem Renaissance; the development of the Harlem neighborhood in New York City as a Black cultural mecca in the early 20th Century and the subsequent social and artistic explosion that resulted. Lasting roughly from the 1910s through the mid-1930s, the period is considered a golden age in African American culture, manifesting in literature, music, stage performance and art.
Playwright Jenifer Nii has previously premiered her plays “The Audacity,” “The Weird Play,” “Kingdom of Heaven,” “Ruff!” “Suffrage” and “The Scarlet Letter” with Plan-B. This revival of the 2010 world premiere of “Fire!” is directed by Rapier.
Bluford, who also wrote the plays “Mama” and “The Clean-up Project,” both produced by Plan-B, has been seen in Plan-B show’s “The Third Crossing,” “A/Version of Events,” and “One Big Union,” as well as “Passing Strange” at Salt Lake Acting Company.”
Listen to the podcast below:
DAISY: Good morning. This is Daisy from Gephardt Daily and I’m super happy today to be speaking to Jerry Rapier, who is the Plan-B artistic director, and also the director of “Fire!” by Jenifer Nii, which is your next show, and Carleton Bluford, who is appearing in the one-man show playing Wallace Thurman. And just for those who don’t know, it’s April 13 to the 23rd at the Rose Wagner theater downtown. And just really easy question to begin with Can you tell me a bit more about the play?
JERRY: Sure. So we commissioned this play from Jenifer in 2009. She was transitioning from working as a reporter to dabbling in playwriting. And I actually, I discovered Wallace Thurman in some things I was reading and my first thought was, why the hell doesn’t everyone know who this is? Why is this new information to me? So Jenifer is trying to find a project and I, I texted her, which you know, way back then seems like such high technology, to send a text message. “Do you know anything about Wallace Thurman?” and she said: “Give me a minute.” And in her reporter researcher way she got back to me in about an hour and she was, she was she had consumed enough information that she felt like she knew a little bit about, enough about him to have a conversation about creating a solo play about him. And a year later, we produce the play with Carleton.
DAISY: And what should we know about Wallace Thurman?
JERRY: You want to take that one, Carleton?
CARLETON: What should we know about Wallace Thurman?
DAISY: Yeah, for those that don’t know about him.
CARLETON: Oh, my goodness gracious, this show. Well, come see the show.
DAISY: And, scene.
CARLETON: Wallace Thurman was a young African American queer person from Salt Lake City, Utah, who had roots in the Calvary Baptist Church here and was in an accredited creative writer who basically helped, you know, start and bring together the people of the Harlem Renaissance, which is a huge deal. A lot of people don’t even know about. It’s funny. I was talking to someone the other day, and I was like: “Oh, yeah, I’m playing Wallace Thurman, this major character in the Harlem Renaissance.” And they’re like: “What’s the Harlem Renaissance?” and like, well, education is about what we do, a lot of African Americans do in this country is very lacking, unfortunately, but yeah the Harlem Renaissance is one of those things that I grew up with as a as a kid. My parents talking about it, because as African Americans we like praise the people that like, did standout things in our in our culture, but even then, even knowing about the Harlem Renaissance as a young kid I didn’t know about Wallace Thurman.
DAISY: That was going to be my next question. When did you become aware of him?
CARLETON: Specifically when Jerry and Plan-B were considering me for for the role. Which is interesting because we talked about this earlier. But Jenifer Nii is, it’s funny when I first read the show and met Jenifer I thought, oh my gosh, like, I’ve never read something that, that not only I relate to so much being an African American from Utah, and feeling kind of the same things he feels as far as like passion and writing and, and projects. But also that she captured this African American so well. And I remember having conversations with her being like: “Oh, I’m not sure if I’m the right person, to write this or blah blah blah” and I’m like: “Oh, no, you nailed you it, definitely have the right person.”
DAISY: And there’s a story behind the fact that you guys first produced “Fire!” in 2010. You’re bringing it back in 2023 for a reason or multiple reasons, but I was wondering if you could touch on that a little bit. The decision to redo the show?
JERRY: Sure. It’s just occurring to me. I mean, I’ve known this in my brain, of course, but just thinking about the timeline of the Harlem Renaissance, and this production, it’s about 100 years apart. So we’re looking at the centennial of the beginning of all of that too. And Wallace Thurman being this, this Utahn of note that has completely been erased from Utah history. Not only people not knowing about the Harlem Renaissance, like Carleton was saying, but not knowing about this incredible Utahn in our history. In any way.
And so the reason I say that is in the fall of 2021, we were asked to do a reading of the play for the Utah Humanities Festival and for welcoming week for Salt Lake County, for new immigrant families, and right at that same time, Jenifer was diagnosed with hippocampal atrophy, which means parts of her brain are calcifying. And we thought that the reading of the play at that time would be a farewell to Jenifer as a playwright. We, Jenifer and I, decided not to tell Carleton until after the reading, that that was part of what was happening just so it wasn’t in his head during that performance, and that was back when everything was being performed on Zoom primarily.
In the post show discussion, the same question surfaced: “Why don’t people know about Wallace Thurman?” This play is an incredible way for people to to meet him, to be introduced to him, to learn about him. And the conversation even went a little further talking about what benefit it would be for high school students to be introduced to him. My wheels started turning and I thought maybe the best way to say farewell to Jenifer is to reintroduce the play to a new audience, and, including high school students. So we’ll be doing performances for five different high schools as well. So, and the intersection is this is just almost unbelievably beautiful and tragic to me, two writers of color who are from this place that we all call home, who are having their writing careers, Wallace Thurman’s was, Jenifer’s is being cut tragically short by something out of their control, a disease out of their control. Thurman died of tuberculosis combined with alcoholism.
And this idea kept coming back to me in that conversation of what it would feel like to present something that is two writers of color from different eras connected by one story claiming their place in Utah history. Jenifer is the first Asian playwright ever to have a world premiere of a new play in the history of Utah, here in Utah. And it was this play in 2010. So there’s just these full circle elements all around and then Carleton being able to come back and reprise that role. We were talking earlier about him being older than Thurman now and having been younger, when he played him the first time and, and what that perspective brings to the production, and when I asked Jenifer you know, her favorite thing about her play, her answer is Carleton.
DAISY: And my next question was going to be that exactly, actually, Carleton, you first played this role in 2010. Now you’re coming back to it. Thirteen years later. Do you see it about the same as you did before? Or has it has your perception of the play changed?
CARLETON: Changed completely. Changed completely. I think when I was younger, the play terrified me. I wanted to, I wanted to get it right. I wanted to get to him right. I wanted to do my part to represent such an important African American. I felt an immense amount of pressure. It’s my first show. And through all of that, I felt all of the tingly magic that Wallace brings to it. You’ll see he’s such a magical character and yearns for this for this greatness and just to be free and to tell stories and something I wanted to do. I’ve wanted to do on my life. So like, at that time I had this it was this kind of coming out party.
And now it’s, it’s, it’s, you know, I’ll be reading some of the script, rehearsing some of the lines. And I’ll be like, oh, yeah, I remember I felt so strongly or passionate about or I remember exactly what I was doing when I was thinking about that or memorizing the lines. I remember sitting with a blanket over me and having tea and looking at my lines and reading lines, you know, of Wallace sitting on the on his porch, you know, you know reading something or writing something at his home in Salt Lake City. So it’s a different, I guess now looking back at it for me, I’d have to say it’s, it’s at least bittersweet. Saying you don’t, actors normally, normally don’t get a chance to to reprise such this, something like this. And so it’s exciting because I remember that I had word perfect, but I wasn’t word perfect on the show. I was I had one show where I was 99%.
DAISY: Oh, I was gonna touch on that; but you gave yourself a grade, like a percentage every show, right?
CARLETON: Yeah I did.
DAISY: Man, that’s tough.
CARLETON: And then the last it was like, the last show I had, I was like, I’m gonna do it. I was thinking in my head while I was acting. Oh my gosh, I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna do it. And I messed up one word, and I was like…
DAISY: You did, of course you did! Was that one was that one percentage point, you went from 100 to 99?
CARLETON: Yeah it totally took me down, it took me down.
DAISY: So you’re not going to be doing that this time. Right? You’re not going to be grading yourself every show.
CARLETON: Absolutely I am. Gotta get 120%. Not just for not just for Wallace and not just for Plan-B but Jenifer is a dear friend of mine. I owe her my all in everything, I can’t…
DAISY: Well, I believe I also read or listened to an interview with you where you said that it was actually this show that that caused you to believe that you could also write?
CARLETON: Yeah, absolutely. I felt often misunderstood about the things that I have written in the first place up until then. It’s so funny. Just a side note, being the young college student that I was, I started writing in college and someone was like: “Yeah, you should get your plays produced” and I was like: “I’m gonna do that.” And so I looked at local theaters in the area and I found Plan-B and Jerry’s info. And I just said: “Hey, Jerry, I’m a playwright, I have these plays. I think that’d be cool, if you produce them,” and I sent them to him.
So funny, and I love Jerry for this so much. But you know, he, I don’t even know if he read them. Maybe he did. Maybe he didn’t. He was like: “Hey, hi. Thank you for reaching out. I’m glad that you’re so, you know, fervent and want to do this. Why don’t you come in let’s talk,” and and he put me in a two-year writing, workshop and internship, which changed my life and that combination with this play was like exactly what I wanted. Wallace was in this in this world of creatives around him, some of them maybe better. Some of them maybe not. But he was learning with them and growing with them and creating the things that he was passionate about. And I got an opportunity to do the same thing. And he was, and that was largely the reason why I felt like I could because a black man from Salt Lake City helped start the Harlem Renaissance, are you kidding? That I, you know, why wouldn’t I be able to?
DAISY: And it’s probably worth noting that you have since had plays produced by Plan-B as a playwright as well. I also just wanted to ask you, Carleton, as an actor, particularly doing a one-person show. And it sounds like this run is going to be quite intense with going to high schools, et cetera, et cetera. What what do you do to keep yourself relaxed and focused and well rested and all that jazz actually during the run?
CARLETON: Gin helps. Just kidding.
DAISY: I thought you said Jen, so I was like, oh, the playwrite. Yeah. Gin always helps; gin helps everything.
CARLETON: That’s something that Wallace says. No, um, honestly. I have to say that once again, it’s like a homecoming so I don’t really feel the need to… I just do the normal things; rest. I know I feel really comfortable with Jerry we have we’ve had a long-standing working relationship. And I know that when I come home, we’re gonna get to work and I know the kind of work we’re going to do. I’m very confident in that work. And so I’m not really worried about the load or going to different places or how long it’s running or not running. I mean, it’s gonna be, it’s gonna be great. I just need to rest obviously, and sleep. If something drastic happens between now and then like, I hopefully knock on wood, I won’t to lose a limb or anything, but it’ll be fine.
DAISY: ‘Cos you’re in LA now and Jerry just said that you’re rehearsing on Zoom. Until you come to Salt Lake, right?
CARLETON: Yeah, yeah. So we’ll go through that and we’ll work out different kinks and stuff like that. And the blessing about having a one-man show is it’s just me. So there’s no one else to really confer with or block around. We’ll just figure it out. And once we get there, we’ll have time with the crew and everyone who’s involved and well, and it’s already looks really beautiful. I don’t know if you’ve seen any of the set or anything but yeah.
DAISY: It looks incredible.
JERRY: And we also know that we have to very stringent critics from from Ogden. Carleton’s parents, so they’ll let us know if we’ve accomplished what we should or not.
DAISY: Now, are they the type that come to every show?
CARLETON: Absolutely. Yeah. My mom and dad will be there every single time.
DAISY: Literally every show?
CARLETON: Well at least opening night. Yeah, especially that last one. And they couldn’t come, that was too hard of a show to come every night.
DAISY: Love it. And then I was just wondering, a question for each of you, Carleton, what’s coming up for you? And Jerry, I was wondering if you could talk about what’s coming up for Plan-B as well.
JERRY: Sure.
CARLETON: Am I going first? Yeah. Well, um, the show is coming up for me. There’s something down the pike that I’m not actually allowed to speak on yet. Oh, I wish I could but that’s there’s some also really exciting news coming down the pike. Also, I’m writing the show that we just did, “Clean-up Project.” Jerry, I haven’t even told you this. I am pitching that to an investor at the end of the month. And so hopefully by summer, we’ll be filming that. Which is exciting for me.
DAISY: Oh, you’re filming it?
CARLETON: Yeah, I’ve adapted into a film.
JERRY: So there was talk of an independent film last year, so I’m glad to see that it’s moving.
CARLETON: Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Yeah. We had a group in Salt Lake that was going to help us do it. And that kind of fell through, unfortunately, but it’s still got legs and so I’m crossing fingers on that. And then the rest is history, I’m still writing things and writing a musical.
DAISY: Lovely. And you’ve just been on an episode of “Abbott Elementary,” right?
CARLETON: I was!
DAISY: The hot show of the moment, that’s so cool.
CARLETON: It was very, it was very cool. It was a very blessing to be on set, all of them. Quinta [Brunson, the show’s creator] is amazing. She’s, she’s, she’s amazing. So it was fun.
DAISY: Was it? Was it just a great experience?
CARLETON: The whole cast is incredible. They’re incredibly friendly. They’re so talented. And the day that I was filming, they wanted to try to do a half day so they could rush off to the awards because they wanted to see if they could if they were going to win, which they obviously did. And so like okay, we’re gonna try to like do this really quick. And I’m like, great. And we did and we killed it and everyone like high-fived and yelled like, whoa, and then they went off and won awards.
DAISY: Yeah, that cast is incredible. They’ve been cleaning it up with your with the award shows this year. And then Jer, what’s coming up for Plan-B?
JERRY: Well, we, our free elementary school tour continues, that started last August is still continuing through the third week of May. They’re headed to San Juan County in a couple of weeks. By the end of the tour, they will have performed at over 100 elementary schools statewide and that show is called “Ballet for Aliens” by Gerard Hernandez, Jenny Kokai and Oliver Kokai-Means. And then coming up after this show, after “Fire!” closes on April 23, we’ll have our next installment of “Radio Hour,” it’s episode 16, which is “The Case of the Missing Dog” by Brandon Ngo.
DAISY: I might know a guy that’s in that [Daisy’s husband Jay Perry, who has appeared in every installment of “Radio Hour.”]
JERRY: That airs on Radio West on May 12. And then we’ll be announcing our new season in conjunction with the run of “Fire!” So information will be available on our website in a couple of weeks.
DAISY: And I know you probably can’t say too much about it, but are you excited for the next season that’s coming up?
JERRY: Yes, very much so. I will, I can, we can tease it a little bit that we’re doing. Taking a look at the role of women in classic theater.
DAISY: That’s cool. That sounds amazing.
JERRY: I’m excited.
DAISY: So just to repeat the info on this show “Fire!” by Jenifer Nii. It’s at the Rose Wagner April 13 to the 23rd. And probably the best way to get tickets and information is just to hop onto the Plan-B website, right?
JERRY: Yes, Planbtheater.org/fire. And one other thing we should mention is that the first weekend of the show, so the 14th 15th and 16th of April we will also be hosting a free exhibit from the Utah Black History Museum on the mezzanine level of the Rose and it’ll be open before and after the performances on those days, but folks do not need a ticket to the show.
DAISY: Oh, that’s cool.
JERRY: They can pop in and experience it at any time that it’s open and those hours are also on our website.
DAISY: Sweet, and I should probably also mention that your shows always sell out so get your tickets like today now.
JERRY: Yes right now this moment.
DAISY: Right now this moment. Thank you so much, guys. I really appreciate your time and I can’t wait to see the show again.
